I understand that you will soon no longer hear the problem of vehicle width, but a large proportion of the posts here and in the social media concern the excessive vehicle width. It is about the possibility of approval outside the United States, but also increasingly about the fear of accidents and damage in narrow surroundings. Outside the cities, the Aptera is unbeatable in terms of efficiency and air resistance. But in the city center, where these have little value, bad to use.
I think the problem has already been solved by the engineers or will be solved soon. Why am I so sure?
1. The first pre-orderers start thinking about a cancellation in public.
2. Are the buyers, who are undecided because of the wide range, looking for an alternative vehicle that will appear in the next few months until the problem is solved.
3. Because the currently largest growing market for e-vehicle customers would break away.
I think there will either be an Aptera version with a reduced width or a conversion kit that can reduce. It is of the greatest economic importance to send a signal to potential customers before they leave.
A lot will happen on the e-mobility market in the next few months. There are new vehicles and new batteries every day. I believe in the Aptera's unique spirit and design, but I fear it will get harder with each month of delay.
@Sarah Hardwick : When will there be Aptera with a reduced width and European approval?
I do not care about the width, will drive and park accordingly. I have never had an accident that I did not cause and not many of those either.
A copy of an email suggestion I just sent them after the current version and the 4 wheel version have been done...
Email subject: A suggestion for Nathan Armstrong
Mr. Nathan Armstrong,
I was watching a recent video in which you mentioned you were asking for suggestions to bring up in a meeting.
After the current version is successfully sold, and the expected four wheel sedan is done, I have a suggestion (not the truck).
Idea: A commuter version, similar to the Elio Motors concept in the body width being one seat.
1 Why? With the body being about half the width I expect that the miles per kilowatt (or whatever standard you use) would improve over the current design.
This was the reason that Paul Elio chose that design to improve miles per gallon. I thought he had a good design, but a lawsuite apparently caused the project to fail by causing the financing arrangements they had to fall apart.
2 Why? Most people don't have long daily commutes and do not need much body space for battery storage. The narrowness of the body also permits a decrease of the 88" dimension between wheels. This makes it far easier to be in parking lots where my existing car (a Honda Accord, which is narrower than the Aptera) barely has enough space.
3 Why? Most people are in cars by themselves, they don't need to keep getting larger as many companies have done over the decades. A single seat in the front is all that is needed. For the occasional passenger or additional storage space, a second seat could possibly be placed behind.
As you can tell, I have been a strong fan and reservationist of Elio Motors for over a decade. Hopefully, some of those ideas can be continued on in Aptera.
Respectfully,
Joshua Caldwell
I think this may have been mentioned before, but how about adding a small channel or tube on the outside of the front wheel skirts in which you could insert a pole or flag so you could see how close things and vehicles are, and oncoming, passing, or parking vehicles could see how wide your car really is. Be great in city traffic and narrow streets and you could remove them on freeways or long trips.
Also, how about a camera on the passenger side skirt pointing down to see where the curb is and avoid scrapes?
I really hope they keep the width, I like the stance and the look of the original design not the reduced width version.
I just want one. And because I rebel, make it wider!. I have waited a long time for this dream vehicle and am astonished with all the tech advancements.
I like the Polish design with the adjustable wheel width and the way the body slants into the corners. I am concerned about the width and feel this is something worth investigating. Love the Aptera but it needs a little bit of work as 88" is too wide for city driving, car parking etc & I feel hard for other vehicles on the road to avoid as they are potentially out of sight.
LMFAO! We've been discussing wheels getting ripped off by passing trucks, death by airbag absence, & the like, but you're more concerned about drinks!
I hadn't thought of that since my FOUR-seat Fiat BEV holds FIVE drinks, including a full-size wine bottle. Wine is the official driving drink in Italy, right? Kidding of course. Do NOT drink & drive!
Personally, I'm more concerned about a 2-seat vehicle having four cupholders: My current vehicle seats five and has four cupholders... Had the manufacturer made it wider there would have been room for more cupholders so wider must be better!
It also doesn't protrude way past any line of parallel-parked cars, where even their nearly-eye-level mirrors fold because they sometimes get hit.
I have not driven a Slingshot, but my point was its width is adequate, & doesn't make it illegal everywhere in Europe.
By the way, have you driven a Slingshot? I have and I'd be very pleased if the Aptera did not handle that badly.
I see it touching only 0.8g cornering. Looks like 0.7g in most corners. This is lazy sedan territory. A modest sporty car can do 0.9-1.0g. It's easy to lower front wheel traction with thin high pressure tires so the car understeers at the limit. An anti-roll bar is not some sort of drop-in solution to fundamental handling problems.
I don't want to give up ANYTHING with respect to efficiency and handling. I am happy with a well developed chassis and the width is not a problem.
Roll stability is almost certainly not an issue, as shown at https://youtu.be/MUVDH9jAhbk where it's sliding like crazy without rolling over, even with the older higher center of gravity from the central motor, gearbox & diff, all now deleted. With narrower track width, simply adding an anti-roll bar like every other car has would likely be the most it needs, but absolute worst-case scenario make the tires a more reasonable width for the weight, to make sure it still slides before tipping, also like every other car.
Yaw stability is not an issue, since the Polaris Slingshot is fine with less track width AND shorter wheelbase.
It would still be about 20% more efficient than the world's current best even with DOUBLE the drag. Even if that HALVED efficiency (which it wouldn't, with the same low weight & low rolling resistance) it would go 5 miles per kWh. Most cars go 4 or less.
There may be more to the issue then 10% drag penalty. Off the top of my head I can see roll and yaw stability. What does easier-to-rollover do for marketability?
The torque vectoring front hub motors have some authority to control yaw stability. Would it be smart for Aptera to trade fits-in-more-garages for can't-pass-the-mouse-test-anymore?
The 10% drag number is just moving the wheels closer to the body. What if the design team wanted to recover so roll stability so they made it closer to the ground? And that cost another 10%. Is 20% too much to give up? Oc corse, now that the car is lower, maybe it can't pass side impact crash test....
I think those complaining about width may not appreciate the interconnectedness of the design process.
Fair enough. So instead of having only "the same drag as a windshield wiper" it has "as much drag as an F150 mirror".
My point stands that its drag can go up "over 10%” by giving it the proper length & track width for Europe and still have unbeatable efficiency
Drag coefficient of 0.09 is at the 7:00 point of this recent interview with one of the designers.
They say the excess width reduced drag "over 10%" so it would probably be around 0.13 with Europe-legal front track. 😉
There is no problem with width. Either you buy one (like me) or you don't. I wanted one last time but could not afford one. This time I can, and am. Goodbye gasoline.
Aptera "needs" its excess width for aerodynamics exactly as little as it "needs" its extremely low 0.09 drag for 625% of the US avg daily drive.
& it "needs" its excess width for high-g cornering without an automotive-standard anti-roll bar, as shown on this old video with a high center of gravity central motor, gearbox, & differential (all deleted for the current version). As you can see, it's extremely stable:
https://youtu.be/MUVDH9jAhbk
Just want to voice my opinion that Aptera's 88" width is more than 20" wider than my G1 Honda Insight. I know Aptera needs this width for stability and (somehow) improved aerodynamics, but honestly this is the 2nd biggest reason I might not buy the car (the biggest reason would be if it never ships (again)).
I'm sure y'all have tons on your plate, but if there's anything you can do to make it narrower, I think you'd get more interest. Obviously a two-seater is only enticing for a small crowd, but us G1 Insight owners are used to that ;).
YES! Sarah, it is EXTREMELY satisfying to know that you are "listening".
Hi! Thanks for all your comments, questions, flow charts and YouTube videos :) We are committed to bringing Aptera to Europe, and our team is working on the best way to make that happen. Our #1 priority right now is getting our second and third development vehicles finished and moving into the Beta phase of our design so we can ramp up to full scale manufacturing as quickly as possible. (The Munro team is at our office this week to get the process started). We will learn much over the coming weeks/ months. In the meantime, I'll check in with the team and see if there have been any further discussions around this topic. We will be as transparent as we possibly can with the information have available currently. We are grateful for your support!
I don't expect the Aptera team to make their vehicle narrower. The Aptera was designed to be as aerodynamic and efficient as possible. The vehicle was built that way and looks that way because that is the direction the science led them. The 88-inch wide stance was incorporated into the design for a reason. With as windy as it gets here in Colorado, I welcome the stability of the 88-inch width.
I wish our EU and UK brothers and sisters luck with getting laws changed. (seriously). But I'm not sure how quickly new legislation will move regarding vehicles that do not yet exist. Any changes to existing law will most likely occur after the Aptera exists in large enough numbers in countries that have less restrictive laws on vehicle width. If Aptera starts selling like hot-cakes everywhere but their country, and enough residents show demand for the vehicle, only then will the laws be changed. At least that's how it is supposed to work here in the US. Your mileage may vary.
I drove a US Army HMMWV, (Humvee) around Germany and Bosnia back in the 1990s. Those are 85-1/2 inches wide before you account for about 12 inch wide mirrors on both sides. With mirrors, we are up to about 109 inches wide. (The mirrors do fold in at least.) Yes, there were some tight roads, especially the smaller towns, walled cities and older bridges. Never a collision, but it is possible to negotiate those roads with a wider vehicle. None of that means a damn thing if the law states 84 inches (or whatever) in the limit for street legality. Those countries will simply need to wait for the laws to reactively catch up.
I mean, I've got no objection if Aptera shaves an inch here of there. Or adds an inch someplace as the transition to full production design. But, my expectation is the end result will look very much like the prototype.
There is no problem with the width of the european version of the Aptera because Aptera has not revealed the final specifications for this variant yet. There is more of a problem with the patience of some reservation holder to wait for this informations 😉
And thankfully, the Aptera I've waited 10 years for, the one I've reserved, the one I want, the one I will buy....is the same car they are building. How convenient is that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfjHq_NOx8
aptera video about size
https://youtu.be/qSHyJsxXTg4
The front width of the Aptera is 20 inches narrower than the smallest U.S. parking space, a foot narrower than the buses we share the road with, and 8 inches narrower than the smallest garage door I've ever seen. These have been designed to work in the real world. I'll be parking mine out in the daylight anyway. Let's not invent a problem.
Yes, being a life long car nut, I am familiar with the Morgan. In the states, in the last couple of years, Polaris has sold several thousand of their Slingshot sport vehicle. It is a three wheeler and is about 78 inches wide. I think Polaris has already beaten down a path for Aptera to follow with many states coming up with definitions for Autocycle, motorcycles don't have steering wheels, motorcycle license endorsement and helmets not required and so forth. We also have a thriving market in 3 wheel motorcycles that you do sit astride and use handle bars to steer. I think they need a specific autocycle endorsement unlike the Slingshot.
In any case the 88 inch width of the Aptera is less than many large pickup trucks and common residentially owned utility trailers in the US. Road lanes and parking slots will accommodate the Aptera with just the owner getting used to its wider stance.
Parallel parking might take some skill and care. Frankly, parallel parking is rare enough in most of the suburbs it is not uncommon to run across people who have never done it and will look for alternative spots. Still, if you wanted to parallel park an Aptera you have to practice to not risk scuffing the inner wheel pants on the curb in an effort to get the outer wheel clear of the drive lane. Still the Aptera is more narrow than a Ford F150 across the mirrors.
in the UK, Morgan has been producing 3 wheel autocars since 1911 with some gaps, but they are still in production.
If you had - and you actually did - read my comments in other posts you know that I will buy a Microlino for Switzerland and the aptera to travel the USA.
And before placing my order I watched the video and read the specs.
I am very confident that aptera will deliver.
BMW Bloch
No aggression only fact. Why did you reserve a Microlino in parallel and also advertise it. Do you have no confidence that you will ever get an Aptera?
It baffles me that people place an order for a product they don't like as is, then demand the product must be changed to fit their demand.
And on top they demand none else shall comment on their bizarre behavior while at the same time they keep posting their demand again and again in multiple categories and various titles.
Maybe the European legislation should be changed...
No aggression - No influence - Only logic!
There are currently 7800 orders, 2000 - 3000 orders go to the USA. What if the rest of the orders fall away, because there is no approval in the countries. Aptera needs fresh money, no second round of investment will help - investors invest in products that have a chance of international success and not in a niche product with low volumes. If Aptera has problems, everyone who has pre-ordered here has problems, no matter what dimensions and appearance the vehicle has.
Reality will show the right way.
Please no further comments 🙄
What if a mob of preorderers start agitating for change? Or even resource sapping co-development of something ugly and stupid? What if Aptera is distracted by the "threat" of order cancelations? I don't want Aptera distracted from their laser-like focus. Frankly, I hope people who have issues with the width DO cancel so the rest of us can get on with it. If they want a skinnier car, they should start their own company.
I can not emphasize how perfect the current iteration is. I have ZERO interest in any of the suggestions with adjustable width, tandem seating, or front wheels blended into the body. ZERO!
If Aptera can make a business case for a more narrow car for Europe, fine. Later. Right now I hope they get started on a car that looks like the running prototype.
Why are some people aggressively criticizing the width. It was known before your ordered.
If you need a narrower three-wheeler look at this one
https://vanderhallusa.com/edison-2-2020/
@Sarah Hardwick
With Li-Air battery, 1500 Wh/kg, 1000 mi range, 78 inch width.
I'm not sure what you mean by "I think the problem has already been solved by the engineers or will be solved soon." As I understand, the width is a result of the body size + wheel pod width + separation necessary to reduce interference drag. So there is no way to reduce the width without reducing the range, or reducing the interior space, or both. Either change (let alone both) would likely be unacceptable to many people who pre-ordered the vehicle. I think those of us who can't have (or can't live with) an 88-inch wide vehicle need to go for a different brand, or wait for the future 4-wheel model from Aptera.
Bojan Majdandzic
There is not much difference between 2.24 m and 2.5 m, but the bus has 4 wheels and not 3. 😉
If the Aptera is road legal in Europe, I will be perfectly satisfied with it's sizes. The Aptera is still less wide than a bus or truck, being maximum 2.5 meters wide, and they get everywhere.
there is a Polish ev with variable width. This serves as proof of concept. so Aptera could copy or license that technology. Problem fully solved with a hopefully modest increase in cost.