Side view cameras have been approved for use in the European Union and many Asian countries. I know that Aptera, Tesla, and other manufacturers are lobbying for approval in the United States, Canada, and other countries with, shall we say, less "nimble" national regulatory structures. I have been following the news about side-view cameras, and there is virtually nothing about Federal Government consideration of a rule change since late 2019. The technology is ready to offer greater safety and improved aerodynamic efficiency, and over the long term, approval of side view cameras is inevitable, but big bureaucracies can move VERY slowly.
In the interest of helping Aptera to make the best, most advanced vehicle possible, I have some questions' and I am looking for answers from Aptera leadership:
What is the current status of lobbying efforts?
Aptera has 11,000 plus reservation holders, many of whom will register their vehicles in the United States or Canada. Are there ways you can leverage that base of support to light fires under the appropriate posteriors in government?
Can you provide us with contact information for key personnel who might consider the opinions of their country's share of 11,000 citizens and voters an encouragement to action?
Can you provide us with data about efficiency differentials between mirrors and cameras and with talking points about reliability, safety, and other factors that would be useful in communications with appropriate decision makers in the government?
We need to start a petition... Like petition.org or whatever...
If you do lmk and I'll sign it...
We need to start a petition... Like petition.org or whatever...
If you do lmk and I'll sign it...
Sideview mirrors inside the car might or might not quite qualify as "show the road 200 feet behind the vehicle" or whatever the applicable state laws are.
I've read some articles around that Koenigsegg is looking at mirrors that clip on and can be removed.
Another solution is to mount the side mirrors inside the windows. That would add nothing to the drag.
@retmil91 I wonder what happens due to Aptera not being "over 150cc". One supplier listed my own BEV as something weird like "0 cylinders".
That's probably partly true, at least for automobiles, though I think only a driver's side mirror is required, since many vehicles only have a driver's side mirror, including my beater pickup. So if it's required to have both, it's certainly not enforced, at least here in Washington. On motorcycles I'm sure it's not required, at least on the road (maybe at purchase for new bikes?), since many bikes including most of the ones I've owned didn't have them, since they are mostly useless on motorcycles due to the vibration. May be different for autocycles, but even so, the law will change someday, hopefully soon, and easy removal would be nice.
But not a lawyer, just a scofflaw, so what do I know?
That's probably partly true, at least for automobiles, though I think only a driver's side mirror is required, since many vehicles only have a driver's side mirror, including my beater pickup. So if it's required to have both, it's certainly not enforced, at least here in Washington. On motorcycles I'm sure it's not required, at least on the road (maybe at purchase for new bikes?), since many bikes including most of the ones I've owned didn't have them, since they are mostly useless on motorcycles due to the vibration. May be different for autocycles, but even so, the law will change someday, hopefully soon, and easy removal would be nice.
But not a lawyer, just a scofflaw, so what do I know?
That doesn't work since cops can give you a ticket for driving without mirrors, which are considered safety equipment.
I have no idea if the laws have changed, but when I bought my jag in 92, it came without the leaping cat on the hood, since regulators figured it would skew pedestrians in some delicate anatomical areas, but the dealer could bolt one on from the factory after I bought it. I'm hoping the same thing applies in reverse to any mirrors that cause undo drag. Just point out that whatever you do " don't take out that one Allen screw, wink,
Correction to my post. Fat fingers "41" should be "31" Here are some more of the diverse autocycle state definitions:
19 states require autocycles have seatbelts.
16 states require that the driver not sit or straddle the seat.
15 states require autocycles be enclosed.
15 states require foot pedals to control acceleration, braking, and, if applicable, a clutch.
11 states require autocycles meet federal motorcycle safety requirements.
10 states require the vehicle to have a roll cage or roll bar.
Eight states require autocycles to have antilock brakes.
Four states require autocycles to have airbags.
Tandem seating (Nebraska, Missouri and New Mexico).
Headlamps (North Carolina).
Windshields (Virginia).
Windshield wipers (Tennessee).
a lot of detail here:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/transportation-review-autocycles.aspx
The regulation doesn't ban camera's, it requires mirrors. Having both would be fine, in theory cameras could do a much better job than mirrors so having them as well as mirrors would still be helpful. The problem with mirrors is that they create drag. Mirrors are encased in cowlings to reduce drag but it's still significant.
I was wondering if the side mirrors where legally required for production could be either:
1) Still have the cameras installed, and the mirrors easily removed by the owner.
2) Enclosed in an aero profiled clear polycarb/glass to reduce drag. A long front cone profiled along the body and a trailing clear cone profiled along the door.
Aptera is an autocycle not a car, the car rules don't apply to autocycles so they can use camera's instead of mirrors. Being an autocycle has big advantages when it comes to compliance costs, however for Aptera there is a huge downside, they aren't eligible for the federal tax credit. If they can get the definition of a car changed so that they can be included in the tax credit the downside might be that they will have to have mirrors.
Aptera has an experienced lobbiest working for them, and they are not going it alone. We will soon have more details about their efforts as they further engage their ambassadors.
Lobbying for government regulation changes is an expensive and time consuming effort, requiring people with special skills and connections, especially at the national level. Last year GM spent about 2.8M on lobbying at the federal level. This year about half that. They have a large and experienced staff and organizations at the state level as well. Unfortunately their efforts as well as Ford and other US Vendors, is focused on putting up trade barriers to foreign competing products. No help from these kind of people for cameras in place of mirrors.
Aptera's main focus should be on bringing the first production vehicle to market in what ever configuration is necessary to meet state and federal regulatory requirements for a three wheeled vehicle in CY2022.
Aptera should not spend their sparse capital and staffing resources (Probably don't have people trained in the skills of lobbying) at this point. This is something we as Aptera fans can organize and spearhead. We need a consistent message and collateral that tells the story, align ourselves with other organizations with the same lobbying goals. and leverage our future purchasers where they are concentrated the most.
If we have an Aptera Patron or Ambassador that has lobying skills perhaps that person could advise us on how to best organize and get started and advise us along the way. Of course now (Probably in the past) is the time to ramp up such an effort
Aptera is already involved in lobbying efforts, but now they are working on putting together a lobbying committee driven through the brand ambassadors. We should be hearing details about this shortly.
I'm not sure how many signatures are required, but a citizens petition can moved legislators to consider changes to regulations. I would gladly be one of the first to sign a side-view camera, and an Autocycle EV rebate petitions.
Some of those officials might even have Aptera purchase reservations*, after all, if they're pro-sustainability how could they justify NOT driving one!
*Or someone with a reservation, or an extra one, might even donate it to a high-visibility official.
Frank is correct in that the power of the people could be put to better use by Aptera. Not only in lobbying for camera technology, but also rebates for efficiency, qualifying Aptera for gov't. loans or subsidies, or any other ways in which they believe we could be useful. What issues Aptera is having and what officials might be responsive to our input would be good. We are anxious for your success, so please, where we can, let us help!!!
I'm really glad that you are motivated to take this on as this will help the efficiency of all new cars and trucks, including future vehicles from Aptera Motors. Thank you.
Remember, however, that this Aptera is not an automobile and so its design is not dictated by automotive regulations such as having side view mirrors. (Aptera is an autocycle, a category of motorcycle.) Some states currently require one mirror on motorcycles. That could be a side view or rear view mirror. Aptera will offer that option for those states.
You might want to write to info@aptera.us