Which battery size is right for you?

600 Mile range. It seems pretty perfect in terms of range. The 1000 mile range one seems like overkill to me. Taking DC to Portland, Maine is a little over 500 miles, and the furthest South I drive typically is Virginia Beach, this is more or less perfect for east coast road trips.

Here's a video about 3M IR automotive window film: I recommend the "chocolate bar" test! https://youtu.be/oq90AhsY3fI

99%+ UV reflective does not mean the infra-red is being reflected.

I have never liked sun roofs! I live in the desert. Why would I want to let in more heat.

Besides, has anyone noticed the driver can not benefit from a sunroof? It sits behind the driver, not over him.

A side note.

When I wrote "not over him" in the above sentence, a thought came to me: Is it all men on this website? Do women participate in this website?

Tesla claims thier carbon tinted glass roof us 99%+ UV reflective

but I touched that tinted glass and it was hot ( while it was 101F last week down in the city)

The on line available “clip in solar screen” is not insulating and it sags 😔

Films R values are minimal.

( I have a cork coating (opaque paint) on my home, that has a small R value)

My wife’s Lincoln MKC , with full tinted glass, has a simple insulated rigid retractable cover inside, it never sags, we never feel the heat radiate through it .

But we rarely open it and would never had ordered a glass roof.... we are forced to get it as std in high end vehicles😔 Same with my Ridgeline RTL-E , which will be replaced with the Aptera

I don’t look through my, roof when driving, I wear sunglasses constanly in this “ solar state”

I look forward to my Aptera’s shady full opaque solar roof!

I bet it is!

Beautify sedan but my wife likes a smaller and slightly higher vehicle “ for her likes/norm

Why does nearly every EV mfg’er of new midels, think we all need a full glass roof ?! ( tinted isn't enough)

The Aptera seem perfect for my needs!

Even on our roads

We have a 2020 Model S LR+ (402 miles EPA). Averaging 248 Wh/mi which is spot on. Not much 70 mph around Tucson. At 80+ mph, better be looking for a charger at 240 miles. The 600 mile Aptera is on order. The key to completing this order is a comfortable test drive! The Model S with air suspension is tough to beat.

Will do ...because not having an EV I have no routine experince using Google map , Plugshare,A Better Route Planner etc... to locate chargers

Although cross country trips are my plan

I would be thinking the same

Dream!

For me originally I thought 400 miles but due to lack of infrastructure my day trips along Lake Superior would require the 600 mile version along gives a good safety net if I need to drive faster or use heat

Normally I would never drive 250 miles in a day, so why would I need the weight & cost? I would like a 125-mile model, which would also be lighter, so even more efficient, with better acceleration, cornering, & braking.

If I wanted to travel further, I'd go with a friend in their car, or rent, borrow/swap, or drive to the airport.

My own 100-city-mile BEV's battery is on track to last over 260,000 miles & still make my US-average 40-mile round-trip city drive, without even stopping at any of the 20 free chargers I pass going each way.

Battery cost was predicted to drop about 15%/year & it did, so it was predicted again & happened again, so it's now predicted to continue. At that rate, today's $5k battery would be under $1k in 10 years.

For me it's a toss up between 400 and 600 miles. It's not often I want to drive 400 in one day so even if I stopped for lunch and gave it a boost I would get about 400 miles using 20-80% battery. Normally I would never drive 400 miles in a day so why would I need to weight and cost of 600mile range. From Auckland to Wellington, far further than I would want to drive in a day is only 305 miles. Its depend of Battery Replacement Cost and car battery.

600 mile battery pack tops out just before 1000KM, and the longest distance road trip I can see myself doing nowadays is just shy of 800KM. So that should cover it. And if I need to make an extra charge stop, or two, along the way due to battery degradation or cold weather? Well, it's good to stop for a bite, or to refresh yourself on longer trips anyway. :P

Nice !

These are reservations, so orders and details will have to be confirmed in due course

They said to new website that is coming... will allow us to update our choices

Congrats!

I'm new to the EV world. I ordered the 600 mile (965 km - wow) battery. I live in southern Ontario Canada and it can get very hot and very cold and I have now learned both can have a huge impact on battery life. I also wanted a battery that I could use as a V2H in the future. And, if I choose to sell (to buy a newer version of Aptero, of course) I believe the bigger battery may be an easier sell in the future. Regarding interior colour and how it affects interior temps., can I easily change my option ?

I reserved a 400 mile option, but I might step up to the 600 before the the time comes. After nearly a decade driving electric, I know that on our most frequent long drives, usable winter range can be as little as 50 - 60% of rated range. The 250 mile options would be the very bare minimum to make our trips around Tennessee. But 400 covers all of our current needs. The 600 mile model might "future proof" for trips I don't yet imagine.

I have been re thinking my choice of going with the 60kw pack and reducing it to the 40kw pack as I am retired and will be at least 70 years old when I finally get mine. Sense the 40kw versions will be produced first and my longer trips are much fewer, even short trips are fewer. I have decided not to sell my 2011 Volt for several reasons. one reason being that I might not get enough for it to pay for the extra cost of the 60kw battery. Other reasons include the 4 passengers, still trouble finding convenient fast charging stations and I have made a special ramp system for it to carry my self built remote controlled, battery powered 21 inch cut lawn mower. The Volt has a more useable cargo space. The money saved will more than pay for shipping from CA.

Instead of deleting lines in the FAQ spreadsheet, I think it would be better if they retained the lines, erased the info, and entered the word "Deleted. That way the information would be removed but the number of the lines would not change.

Regarding "I hope Aptera will install a 15-20 amp 12V receptacle.": Currently line 426* of Aptera's FAQ Spreadsheet says "there will be at least one 12V outlet", & 15A seems to be pretty standard.

Regarding "35-40 mph headwinds":

I frequently say (somewhat incorrectly**) that air resistance is by far the biggest range factor. Many years ago a Boeing engineer told me the factor was the CUBE of airspeed. Then someone "corrected" me that drag increases by the square of airspeed. Recently someone else mentioned the cube, so I Googled it: Apparently drag increases by the square of airspeed but for some strange reason the POWER required increases by the CUBE of airspeed, & power use is what really matters.

No matter what, driving 60 in a 40mph headwind requires the same HUGE amount of power as driving 100mph!

* Numbers change when they delete lines from above.

** I don't have any numbers, but cold temps make battery capacity temporarily plummet. I got a free app called "AccuBattery" that shows my phone's voltage. I put it in the freezer to simulate parking overnight in a northern winter, & voltage plummeted. Also ONE-WAY hills kill range. However, if you can make it to the top you gain nearly all of it back on the way down.

WEll, there are a few more Wichita to KC chargers lately - one in Emporia, one in Topeka, etc., but nothing like the thousands in KC itself. Wichita, a metro area of well over 500,00 ppl has ONLY ONE TESLA supercharger and it is on South Broadway, an area known for drugs, prostitution, and crime... I’m not going to be hanging out there!

Summing up yesterday’’s adverse winds drive home from the office:

Guess - O - Meter says 67 miles range on my 3.8 mi/KWh average, BUT 35-40 mph headwinds on 77 degree day, flat roads dropped my efficiency in half! 1.9 mi/KWh! So only 33.5 actual miles available last night and had to use the REX generator to get home.

I’m just mentioning this to point out that it does not take much in adverse conditions to cut your range in half.

Re: resistance heat - if Aptera does not install it as an option, I’d have to use a plug-in 12V defroster unit like I need in my motor home during ice storms. I just hope Aptera will install a 15-20 amp 12V receptacle.

eGolf has an electrically-heated windshield. Maybe someone here can do the math to see if it's like seat heat, where conduction wins big over convection (resistance/heatpump).

The ICE car drivers probably read this thread and laugh at us.

While I drive a 2014 i3, I visit a lot with other EVers on PlugShare when traveling. Kansas has good charging E to W on i70, but that is about it. Only scattered WalMart and local utilities otherwise. There is a killer test drive from Wichita, KS to. Kansas City , KS that clearly shows the limitations of EVs under duress, e.g. Steep repetitive hills, Heavy Rain, Snow, Resistance heat de-icing and very high headwinds. Although that run through the Flint Hills is only about 200 miles, I have often run into Tesla ppl and others in a big bind in spite of their Ranges from 250 to 300 miles.

Speed limits are 75-80 mph on these turnpikes and 65 mph causes traffic problems, but you can keep to it.

You definitely need BOTH Heat Pump and Resistance Heat for Ice Storms. With High Winds, driving ice, sleet, snow, the i3 Heat Pump nor most of the others will keep your windshield ice free. I have not seen an EV Heat Pump on any model that will keep up with a Kansas Winter Ice Storm.

I want a car that I can easily drive from Wichita to KC in comfort with the heat on, de-icers on, and capable of at least 70 mph for long periods over steep roller coaster hills in any weather. So I want a 600 mile range Aptera.

None of the EV Computer “Guess-o-Meters“ I have seen give a reliable range estimate for this tortuous run. Right now the headwinds are 35-40 mph on my 50 mile way home from work to the farm. I am going to have to drive 55-60 mph to make it without turning on the i3 Range Extender, and that slow EVEN IF I USE THE GENERATOR.

So please do not rely on the data sheets and your skill for an EV to overcome severe conditions. Yes, sometimes you can turn off the heat, you could slow to 40-45 mph, or other Spartan measures, but great EXCESS RANGE is the only answer to truly luxurious EV travel.

I ordered the 250 mile version since the majority of my drives will be around the SF Bay Area anyways and the furthest place to go will be around 100 miles one way either north, south, or even east

First let's observe: "Range Anxiety" is a form of anxiety. Anxiety is not to be encouraged for any reason.

Now that I have an EV, I find that it can easily be charged during the sitting around time at home. I was able to install a level 2 charger (dryer plug strength) for about $500 after rebate from my state government. This amount of charging makes it easy to keep my "tank" near 250 mile range.

I want the cheapest purchase price that can satisfy my "needs." Since I understand range anxiety is not a concern for me, I want the Aptera to realize its design goal of passive charging. If that works, should not need extra battery, which entails more weight, which means less efficiency and more need for plug-in charging.

On the basis of these criteria I chose the entry level range, with the optional maximum solar panel upgrade, and the camper option. I like to camp, and if I can't plug in, will just make camp until my Aptera soaks up enough charge to move on.

I wonder how much extra range one may be able to obtain by reasonably hyper-miling the 250m version. Also a 2WD 250 version will weigh considerably less from the get-go, so, I wonder if it might go farther than advertised anyways.

@Bryan Bowes Our Fiats don't have an adjustable charge % limiter but they do have a built-in 85% limit.

They also have onboard charge timers, although it's usually easier to use a standard $10 plug-in timer. Just make sure it can handle the 1.44kW (12A). Maybe even a "smart plug" that I think you can program &/or switch on/off from your phone. Very little math is required to guestimate charging time, at about 5%/hour on L1 & 25% on L2.

HOWEVER, it seems pretty unnecessary, since our Fiats' batteries are proving VERY long-lasting, with the detailed reports showing under 2.3% loss per 10,000 miles, even though most first-owners were leasing, with a full HALF their life spent resting at max charge*, which is reportedly even worse than a full charge followed by discharge.

One HUGE reason for the longevity is protection from BOTH extremes of State Of Charge (0% or 100%): Fiats only charge to 4.1V/cell, which is about 85% of the battery's full capacity. Tesla says that even going to 95% gives DOUBLE the life of going to 100. All EVs have a BIT of this, but not all as much, for example the 1st Leaf reportedly went to 98%, with disastrous results.

Fiat's discharge limit of 3.1V gives a similar low-end margin but of course we're much less likely to hit that (coasting into a charger on 0%, & reportedly it's not as bad to go under 20% as it is to go over 80.

*Typical original use of a 500e was a lease driver who didn't care at all about the battery, with a 40-mile round-trip commute (or less), plugging into home L2, since that was oversold by all the salesmen even though a standard wall outlet will recharge that 40 miles overnight. L2 fully recharges the drive by 8PM so it's sitting at full charge 12 hours/day, literally HALF its life.

All that said, on L1 with a US-avg 40-mile drive, it's fairly easy to keep a Fiat near the supposedly-ideal 3.92V/cell (about 60% on its gauge): Charge til the gauge says 80% & after the one-way drive it will show about 60% so it's sitting all day close to ideal. You get home showing about 40%, plug in when you go to bed & it shows about 80% again when you get up to repeat the process or at worst just unplug so it's parked with a very mild 80% showing until the next time you drive.

With a bit longer daily drive you plug in a bit earlier, &/or keep charging during breakfast. If that's still not enough, you plug the OEM charge-cord into 240V which doubles the charge speed, for a full charge overnight from DEAD.

I've pre-ordered a 40kW Aptera, but I think that a 25kW battery would also suit my daily driving needs. My round trip commute is around 80 miles, so even accounting for other power drains, or the occasional side trip I could easily get by with around 100-120 miles of range a day. My area is sunny most of the year, so having the solar charge up in the parking lot at work would help even more. I also like the idea of V2G, with the Aptera as a potential battery backup. Generally, the 40kW battery was a sweet spot for me. Most likely it will be overkill for my daily needs 95% of the time, but the relatively small extra cost of moving from 25kW to 40kW made it a nice insurance policy to cover the occasional long trip or missing a nightly recharge at home.

Originally I thought the 250 mile version would meet my daily commuting needs in Phoenix:

I did a spreadsheet, and I'd only have to plug in to charge about every 97 days, or 7 times in 2 years, assuming I only use it for commuting and around town duties.

And I considered whether the Aptera is the 'right' vehicle for long road trips. Well, it really depends on the road manners. If it had airbag suspension and really quiet highway noise, it could justify going on long-ish road trips beyond 350 miles, such as visiting family out of state. Then I'd opt for the 400 mile version.

For me the calculation depends on its road manners mostly.

For me the 1,000 mile range is not worth the extra $10,000 it will cost over the price of the 600 mile range battery. The few times I drive over 500 miles in a day, looking for a charging station would be worth the $10,000 savings.

I went with the 1,000 mile range (100KWH). I know I have driven over 900 miles in one day, though I don't know if that is the longest. I enjoy driving and every day go on a recreational drive in the countryside.

One can never have too much range.

I have not seen too many people on this thread who have chosen the 1,000 mile range.

Hi Jesthorbjorn. I agree with you that there is not an ideal solution for all. But as a solution for stationary charging whether it be at home or at the office, I was just tossing out that we should be open to green solutions other than solar. Solar too will have areas where charging may be impeded by cloudy, stormy, snowy weather. Or that a tree or building may cause shadowing during its usage. I just so happen to be in an area where on some days, we have an ocean breeze. I like your idea of the micro-hydro which would be specific only to those with access to a water supply. It can be used to charge a portable 2kW lithium generator like a Jackery or Bluetti to transfer to your car. You can take it anywhere. I use mine mainly for camping to power a freezer and charge gps or phones. Hopefully your stream runs throughout the year, but it too has the advantage of charging 24 hours so even a small generator adds up in 24 hrs. You are lucky to have that access.

Speaking of geographic areas, an awful lot of the places people live are in the relative doldrums; nothing "24 hours a day" about any breezes we are lucky enough to get.

Sure, do what suits where you live, but recognize there is nothing universal about it.

While I'm in those doldrums myself, with a propensity to grey weather too, I do have a year round continuous stream coming off the back hill. My 24 hour a day power supply would be micro-hydro.

Hard to see how the wind power or micro-hydro would be any kind of pack-up-and-take-it-with-you green power source. Solar still seems the most adaptable there.

I wonder what it could "account" for.

Even though ROAD-TRIP efficiency (monthly?) from a TIME perspective is more "efficient" for the first 400 miles before charging, if you continue on that trip the bigger battery becomes less time-efficient.

I also noticed their made-up word of "vectorized"🙄. The pre-existing "vectored" is perfectly adequate.

It also depends upon how they're defining "efficiency": They've used some "non-standard" definitions - think "torque-vector steering" which has now morphed into "vectorized steering" for which the generally accepted term is "differential steering". Perhaps their definition of efficiency take more into account than simply MPkWh...

@OceanDragon Exactly! Physics: "optimal weight" for efficiency is the lighter, the better, period. I have a 24kWh BEV. If I added the weight of batteries to increase to 40kWh, my efficiency would drop from increased inertia AND rolling resistance.

Range reduced by "heater" yes. "air conditioner" not so much:

When it's cold enough to "need" the heater, even if you could leave it off by bundling up, with a gallon of piping hot coffee, temporary battery capacity reduction really reduces range (even more than the heater itself). Revealing experiment: Get a free phone app like AccuBattery that shows voltage. Put your phone in the freezer for a while (like parking your Aptera outside in NY or WA winters) & see how voltage plummets.

On the other hand, higher temps decrease battery LONGEVITY, but increase efficiency, so when it's hot enough that I want moderate A/C (78F) I get the same range as when it's cooler & I'm fine with just fresh vent air & fan.

I don't understand how the heavier 40kWh model could possibly be as efficient as the lighter 25kWh model, let alone MORE efficient.

Yeah

Sound like, in your solar zone you might do best to add to your home PV Array for the electric that it will generate power for a charge for the Aptera as I assume your array has a constant unobscured proper solar position and just have the minimum solar array on your Aptera based on “your travels”

If there are bragging rights to be had, I will go for maximizing miles per kWh and asserting that the vehicle is solar powered. The founders have mentioned (in the context of justifying building 40kWh, 2WD “Paradigm“ models first) that that is the most efficient configuration. That’s based I am guessing, on the various simulations they have done to produce most of the numbers we are all familiar with. I expect that the real standardized test values will vary 10 to as much as 20% from these preliminary numbers. I am hopeful that they have been conservative in the numbers they have offered (though some of the hyperbole on the website engenders doubt) so that the real performance will prove to be better. We will see. Point being that as an EV driver, I already significantly out perform the published miles per kWh for my current EV. Getting a 40kWh, 2WD Aptera means to me that I will be getting the most efficient version of the vehicle with which to continue my practice of beating the published spec. performance. Happily 40kWh will take me everywhere I want to go and cost me less than the larger battery packs too.

As for solar gain, I am not willing to move away from the US maritime Pacific Northwest so I will just have to settle for what I manage to collect from our all-too-often grey skies. On the other hand, I already produce about 60% of the “fuel” I use in the current EV with the PV system that I have installed at the house. At roughly 2.5 times better range per kWh, that same PV production should provide all I might need to add to the Aptera and to spare. So while the “Never charge” claim will almost certainly prove to be as hyperbolic as my current reading, I should have no problem backing up a claim of the vehicle being 100% solar powered.

The charging network is much less evolved in the southeast than other parts of the US... 100 kwh for me. I also hope to use as battery storage for my home with V2H.

https://www.aptera.us/forum/aptera-design-discussion/vehicle-to-home-v2h

I am currently signed up for the 600 mile range. As much as I want the 1000 miler, It's hard for me to justify the extra $10K for a distance I will rarely if ever travel in one push. The longest I every really drive is from my home in Canon City, CO to my parents in Kaysville, Utah. That is about 10 hours @ 620 miles one-way and I only do it every couple years. 600 should be fine if I stop 1/2 way for lunch and juice the batter a bit. Heck, even a couple stops to stretch and collect solar, plus solar while I drive should get me the extra 20 miles past 600 to the house. (unless 600 is already factoring in the solar we collect while driving.)

Currently 600 is better than everything else on the market today, although by the time this hits our driveways in one or two years, 600 might be common amongst a few other electric car makers. One might need 1000 for bragging rights at that point. That is when the ~35 solar charging miles a day will still set the Aptera apart.

I think it will be a couple more leaps in technology before other manufacturers see 1000 miles per charge.

That is right....Just put the car in the self driving mode and you are good to go..😁

I laugh about driving to San Francisco CA, from Phoenix AZ nonstop.. well the car wouldn't have to stop

I am in Littleton Colorado, my office is downtown but I work from home 99% of the time and I am simply getting the 1000mile range (I don't know the Kw number for that) just because I don't like to be without options when doing anything, I hate standing in line, hate getting caught up in the crowd and just don't like being limited.

Though everyone has different needs, I think the 40w pack is plenty for most. In a few years, charging stations will be as common as gas stations. Stopping every two hours of highways driving for a short break is a good idea regardless of needing to charge. I go on road trips maybe 2 or 3 times a year. It wouldn't make financial sense to spends several thousand dollars for a total of perhaps a dozen road trips in the time I'll own this car. Factor in depreciation for the long miles, and it makes no sense. I can drive my Tesla on the rare long road trip but don't since a rental car is far cheaper than the depreciation of adding 1000+ miles to the odometer.

EV auto companies shouldn't be trying to add bigger batteries. The should instead focus on getting charge times down, perhaps equal to the time it takes to fill up a gas tank. Many ICE cars only have a little over 300 mile range on a tank and there's absolutely no complaints.

I still think that the red logo will look awesome. Just my preference.

Hmm It is not a functional color like a running / parking light or directional signal, just the company’s logo color

Many men are color blind anyhow😉

There is one type of this color blindness where Green looks Red

I have seen aftermarket green under-lighting on vehicles ???

Is Aptera going to give a color choice with the logo? I know they are using green..However, I think that Red will look way better....Specially if you have a black or white car.

I picked the 40 kWh version figuring on a real world range closer to 350 miles. That’s 5 times the functional range of my 2015 Leaf. Since my daily commute is 70 miles, that would get me back and forth all week on a single charge. And the southern contingent of the family is about 320 miles drive away. I rarely take that trip without stopping once about midway anyway.

For really long trips it absolutely makes sense, at least until DC chargers are as common as gas pumps. They'll almost certainly be at least a bit more common by the time Apteras are actually available.

For home use though my point was that for someone who doesn't need huge range, by the time an Aptera is available they could probably add a few more home 20kWh packs (&/or more solar) for less than adding them to the car. I haven't looked it up, but that might be the case even now, which would cover any blackouts while awaiting an Aptera.

If you don't need it for actually driving, it might make more sense to upgrade the home batteries instead of the car's.

I went with the 100KWH version, hoping that they will have V2G ready at launch. We've only had one long (2 days) outage in the 30 years at our location, but with increasingly severe weather events I expect we might exceed that. With our 4 KW PV system we would be able to run 6 months of the year without cutting out circuits, and the rest for at least a week by rationing.

I am going with the 400 mile option - my commute is 14 miles daily round trip, and as I live the Phoenix area (aka The Valley of the Sun) I will likely never plug it in unless I go on a weekend trip. Charging locations are continued to be built out be it Tesla, Electrify America, et al... We also have a minivan (which will likely be replaced by a small SUVe in the future and a restored 2001 Blazer for offroad and camping

@David Marlow I don't see why - unless you mean comparatively: A heating system is a heating system - it's going to use the amount of power it uses. Aptera wants to use a heat pump system because it will use less power than the resistance heat unit currently in the prototype. And heated seats and steering wheel require less power and reduce the need to heat the entire cabin with forced hot air.

The Aptera's body shell is, essentially, two layers of plastic with foam between them: In that way it's very similar to common cooler and should have better insulative properties than a more thermally-conductive metal body.

Sense the Aptera is so efficient driving, heating will take a much bigger % of the energy.

I am worried about the same thing, but in hot weather. This car's design has a large greenhouse effect so it would be hot inside while either parked or running. An electric air conditioning compressor can knock off a similar percentage of energy, thus range.

No one is mentioning the "hit" that range will take in cold weather: Most other EVs are seeing a 13%-20% loss in range. So that, in a worst-case scenario, would dock your 400 mile range to 320 and your 600 mile range to 480.

٩(˘◡˘)۶

We have a 2020 Tesla S with 402 miles range and live near Tucson, Arizona. It is very efficient and averages 250 watt-hours per miles at “mixed” speed. I agree with 3 hours driving, but if there is no DCFC after 3 hours what are you going to do? I have ordered the 600 mile Aptera. I suggest you do the same. It will give you more freedom.

I ordered the 400 mile range. Although from Europe I want to take delivery in the USA and travel cross country 3 months USA, 3 months Canada.

I never drive more than 3h without taking a break. So I figured it will be just fine for me. Else I am not in a hurry. I want to drive off highways on scenic routes and enjoy the effortless quiet travel, destinations and show it to interested people along the route. Give some test drives.

I will probably film it with a GoPro and create some YT and Instagram channels documenting my journey.

In 2019 I rented a BMW i3 for 6 months and we liked it. Since 2020 I have a 250 miles Renault Zoe and I love it. On the waiting list for a Microlino a Uniti and Sondors as well. Call them my bucket list lol.