This is the first time I have heard they may not have Safety Pilot for the early vehicles. I hope this means that the hardware is already installed and the software only has to be downloaded later (after delivery).
hope they will be able to add hardware for that later and they tell people they can do so, so potential buyers can have insurance they will be able to get such feature later if not now, plus not having it as standard cuts costs for everyone and its not something people rely on (for now) thus people wont value it so much so it doesn't matter much if its not standard feature now
Let me be clear- I don't give a rat's patute about self-steering cars. I can see where I'm going and I don't need something so stupid to tell me I have drifted off the shoulder of the road. Just give me the basic vehicle, no tech extras, and I'm happy as a pig in slop. Please- just ship the damn car as it is, and forget about the Tesla Vision. What if they are wrong? (about self-driving cars)
Aptera has (If I recall correctly.) already said that they may not have "Safety Pilot" ready for the first vehicles. Moreover for you @OldFan "Safety Pilot" is an option and would not affect your order (Timewise) at all.
@OldFan I, too, don't fully understand the need for "Lane Departure Alert" - unless it's to wake a dozing driver who is drifting out of lane. As for "Lane Keep Assist", studies have already shown that it reduces accidents when used in combination with Adaptive Cruise Control. Knowing that I'm in the center of my lane gives me one less thing to worry about when driving in traffic.
People used to say about reversing cameras that they could turn their heads - until they got used to using them and now can't do without: A rear view without blind spots when reversing is a very useful thing - and that's why they're now standard equipment on all new cars sold in the US.
@janavas989 There have been discussions about Aptera steering going back to the first iteration of the vehicle, a decade ago. A lot of "proprietary terminology" (i.e. "non-standard") terminology has been thrown around: "Torque vector steering", "Torque-vectoring", "Vectorized steering". IMHO what they're referring to is usually called "differential steering" by engineers.
We know that Aptera has a standard mechanical steering system but, IMHO, they're talking about using "differential steering" (i.e. varying the speed between the two front motors) as part of the lane-keeping system when the vehicle is traveling at highway speeds. Instead of turning the front wheels and incurring the dreaded "rudder effect" they can simply modify the motor speeds to keep the vehicle tracking properly.
It's SO light it shouldn't need power assist at all, except for things like lane keep assist, auto parallel park/unpark & the like.
The assist in my Fiat is too strong, making it feel twitchy at speed & giving no steering feel. So I pulled the fuse & it's fine, even though it has almost exactly 150% as much weight on its front wheels as an Aptera.
It's a bit heavy at zero mph (parking), but not enough to make me replace the fuse. Aptera should be about 150% easier at zero, with no power steering at all.
My Datsun 240Z had none & was perfect, with almost exactly the same front end weight as Aptera.
I'm old enough to have learned to drive in cars without power steering. Much of the effort is based on the weight of the vehicle. Hence, from the 60s, a Dodge Dart would not require PS ... I remember a 65 Chevy Impala fastback with a 283 4bbl that didn't have PS. Parallel parking took a little muscle. Notably the number of turns lock to lock on the steering was also a factor. Heavier cars typically modified the ratio to make so older folks could still steer in tight areas.
The force vectoring, which I can only presume is capable of recognizing distinct movements of the wheel/motor in 2.5-inch increments, from what I read. Hence, when you turn the steering wheel while stationary, one wheel actually would advance, say five inches and the other would reverse 5-inches meaning you're now headed in a vector.
They were talking about turning donuts and some other wild maneuvers and one of the founders even seemed to joke that the user interface might allow such wild maneuvers.
I don't quite grasp how this works but the 'idea' promises a pretty darn tight turning circle. Given the 'gig' I do - drive by real estate photography - the idea of being able to execute a three-point turnaround is a key feature.
My current EV - a '14 Spark EV first registered in Detroit by GM in February 13 (before introduction), has a turning circle of about 32-feet (compared to over 33 for a Bolt). Still it allows me to turn around on residential streets in a turn, reverse, and go routine.
How maneuverable the Aptera is certainly a desirable feature.
BTW: the Spark was almost as efficient as the I3- it fell down on the highway aspect at speed - and on my variable routes in the spring through fall I often get 5.5m/kw. even with my choice of cheaper tires (I have issues resisting getting scratch at 40mph in a curve) puts my range these days at 70 miles given my battery is over 8 years old.
Still with an energy costs - I can charge overnight on a level 2 EVSE at the EV rate of 4 cents a kwh, the fuel cost for a mile is between 1-2 cents/mile compared to 10-20 cents a mile for an ICE.
Where the Aptera would improve that is that it would, at 10+ miles/kw, be between .2 to .7 cents a mile ... on power purchased from the grid but could cut my time per job significantly as I would be able to use highways and freeways at higher speed with impunity as range would no longer be an issue.
But I see a lot more to recommend the Aptera than just its incredible efficiency. That said, most of challenges I see can be more than mitigated for fun and profit.
Yeah, Aptera's recent comments sounded more like regular power steering and less about torque vectoring. The recent steering wheel post suggested a fairly fast steering response which would also suggest an electric assisted power steering rack.
Torque vectoring is been discussed as if it replaces power steering, but I don't see how it will help if I want to turn the wheels lock to lock while sitting still. Power steering is needed for that.
Torque vectoring may help while driving at speed, but you don't need much steering assist while driving at speed. It is while parked and at low speed when steering assist is needed.
This is the first time I have heard they may not have Safety Pilot for the early vehicles. I hope this means that the hardware is already installed and the software only has to be downloaded later (after delivery).
Let me be clear- I don't give a rat's patute about self-steering cars. I can see where I'm going and I don't need something so stupid to tell me I have drifted off the shoulder of the road. Just give me the basic vehicle, no tech extras, and I'm happy as a pig in slop. Please- just ship the damn car as it is, and forget about the Tesla Vision. What if they are wrong? (about self-driving cars)
@janavas989 There have been discussions about Aptera steering going back to the first iteration of the vehicle, a decade ago. A lot of "proprietary terminology" (i.e. "non-standard") terminology has been thrown around: "Torque vector steering", "Torque-vectoring", "Vectorized steering". IMHO what they're referring to is usually called "differential steering" by engineers.
We know that Aptera has a standard mechanical steering system but, IMHO, they're talking about using "differential steering" (i.e. varying the speed between the two front motors) as part of the lane-keeping system when the vehicle is traveling at highway speeds. Instead of turning the front wheels and incurring the dreaded "rudder effect" they can simply modify the motor speeds to keep the vehicle tracking properly.
It's SO light it shouldn't need power assist at all, except for things like lane keep assist, auto parallel park/unpark & the like.
The assist in my Fiat is too strong, making it feel twitchy at speed & giving no steering feel. So I pulled the fuse & it's fine, even though it has almost exactly 150% as much weight on its front wheels as an Aptera.
It's a bit heavy at zero mph (parking), but not enough to make me replace the fuse. Aptera should be about 150% easier at zero, with no power steering at all.
My Datsun 240Z had none & was perfect, with almost exactly the same front end weight as Aptera.
Yeah, Aptera's recent comments sounded more like regular power steering and less about torque vectoring. The recent steering wheel post suggested a fairly fast steering response which would also suggest an electric assisted power steering rack.
Torque vectoring is been discussed as if it replaces power steering, but I don't see how it will help if I want to turn the wheels lock to lock while sitting still. Power steering is needed for that.
Torque vectoring may help while driving at speed, but you don't need much steering assist while driving at speed. It is while parked and at low speed when steering assist is needed.
No, it uses a mechanical steering system. It is not yet clear if the power steering is normal electric power steering or motor torque vectoring.