I still think a mountain out of a mole hill. Also supposition at this point since a vehicle is not available for inspection by prospective buyers. With similar speculation, I would estimate that this feature as a deal breaker for purchase is quite small. This "Engineering Company" with a small staff and shoestring budget has made quite a splash in the market place. Engineering led is the proper business model at this point but needs to transition to a market focus as the vehicle is made production ready. I see a lot of Market focused competitors on line with their vapor ware right now. Appealing pictures and computer generated videos.
Drivers actually do look to the side, especially in urban environments, or when admiring scenery on a road trip, or when reading signs, or etc. The majority of the time is focused forward, obviously.
The nice thing about sunglasses is that when you turn your head, the "bars" (temples) rotate with your head, so the visual obstruction completely disappears when direct viewing to the side. Not so with this fixed window structure.
Aptera has briefly stated that the bar will be well above eye level. For instance, the FAQs spreadsheet says "It does partially block your view of the birds". None of the prototypes we have seen so far support that statement. It will be great when they can provide confirmation. In addition, if they are able to lower the seat, then that still has "costs": less space to add cushioning, anthro shaping, and adjustability, plus a more go kart-like driving position which generally increases pressure points on the buttocks since support under the thighs gets reduced. Also, the same problem will still exist, though it just gets shifted to taller drivers / passengers. Given the videos and photos sent out so far, it will be interesting to see how much of a difference up to two inches of seat lowering would actually make, TBD.
Even if people either unquestioningly think this is fine or just don't care about it since they want everything else Aptera offers, hopefully we can at least agree that this bar is not a "good" thing by itself. If you could still get an opening window and the aerodynamic numbers were the same, I am fairly confident that most people would choose not to have these field of view blocking bars. Few people would choose it as an option over a clear unobstructed side window. So, it all boils down to trade-offs and personal priorities / preferences. I disagree with Aptera's trade-off decision on this particular item, though some other folks are fine with it. Cool. Aptera is an engineering led company, not a market led or even customer led company at this point. That results in terrific specs and groundbreaking new concepts, though increases the risks for it still being around as a profitably sustainable company in 5 years. There is a balance point on all such things without easy answers, and none of us have a crystal ball.
One thing that applies here is my idea of offering the higher-seat hardware as an optional bag of goodies at a reasonable cost. Shorter drivers might be obstructed more (or less) at the lower seat height, so options are a good thing.
Aptera has stated that the bar will be well above eye level in the production version. They are moving the seats down two inches and increasing the height of the passenger compartment in the beta vehicles.
@Kerbe #12705 You are of course entitled to your opinion, though I strongly disagree on this one. I professionally worked on field of view design for cockpits, so I believe I have a degree of understanding of what is going on here. This design issue is worse than essentially any A pillar or any rear view mirror on 99+% of cars in the world, and it is obviously not in the same location as an A pillar or a rear view mirror. It will impede lateral field of view. Just look at the picture I posted above. If that doesn't bother you and you want to bob your head up and down trying to see things, that is completely fine, but claiming a "fact" that it will not impact a driver's lateral field of view is incorrect.
I love the Aptera in general, though feel this particular item was not a good design trade-off decision made by the team. I'd personally much rather lose a few miles of range (that already beats everything on the potential market by a massive margin) than have this obvious field of view blocker 1 foot from my eyes 100% of the time. At best, it will be annoying. At worst, it could be unsafe. I bet you will understand it better when you actually sit in an Aptera and when a new passenger negatively comments on it.
Nonetheless, I am not looking to argue. Just calling a spade a spade. Aptera is a terrific vehicle, though not a perfect vehicle.
@retmil91 Thanks for sharing your opinion, and your service. I actually worked on field of view design and retrofit programs of multiple military aircraft in collaboration with many military pilots. I know we would have worked harder to solve the issue since this design would not have been considered acceptable among potential alternatives. I will reiterate my point that the Aptera is terrific, and with a little more effort or a bit less nth-degree-tech-specs-at-all-costs focus on numbers over quality of driving experience, the Aptera could be even better. Anyhow, enough said. Over and out.
@Scott I share your concern, and appreciate the non-confrontational tone you set in your comments.
The obstruction as depicted in the image you provide looks to me to be unnecessarily thick. I wonder if for final production they might come up with something thinner, possibly placed slightly lower.
The Subaru SVX had a similar window with two glass sections that met. Maybe that could serve as a model.
@Scott We are, however, talking about the drivers of automobiles - not the pilots of airplanes. Drivers tend to look either directly ahead or down to the side (to check the side view mirrors): Turning the head 90° to the left or to the right is not a common occurrence.
Anyone who wears glasses or sunglasses knows what it's like to have a bar running through their peripheral vision. Tilting the head slightly or shifting the eye to "see around" the temple piece is not an uncommon behavior.
Claustrophobia is a medical condition that has little or nothing to do with "field of vision" - it's triggered by enclosure or the perception of enclosure.
The important fact for non-claustrophobic persons is that the frame member that separates the openable from the fixed door window in an Aptera will have little to no impact on the driver's field of vision - no more so than that A-pillar or the rear view mirror: Most drivers will see "around" it.
@retmil91 The big difference from anyone's likely current car is that the Aptera window design has a solid, lateral, field of view blocking frame directly through the middle of what you would consider a normal open window space in your "current car" and it is located right by your eyes around your eye height (depending upon a person's personal anthropometrics). This blocks both external world view and restricts emergency egress options. I would not personally describe it as "claustrophobic", but it is definitely a design limitation resulting from the pursuit of minimizing aerodynamic drag as much as possible at the expense of creating negative offsetting consequences such as the current side doors window design. The lateral sense of openness and view will definitely be less than your "current car", which for some people may feel claustrophobic.
@Scott Not that big, and not that much of an impediment to driver vision. Not as much as the heavy tinting of all windows except windshield allowed here in FL. If you get full solar the entire back window of the Aptera is covered. Don't see any complaints about that impediment to driver vision. It is all subjective. if you believe it is an issue, then to you it becomes an issue. For me, not an issue at all
@retmil91 Thanks for sharing. I believe that tinting still retains unobstructed line of sight, and some people's choice to over-tint does not justify a blocked field of view issue elsewhere. A bit apples and oranges. I did not order full solar exactly for the reason you mentioned, though that is a bit apples and oranges too since "unobstructed" rear view is actually still offered via the video camera rear view "mirror" (the difference only occurs if you fully turn your head around without looking in the rear view camera display/"mirror"). I appreciate that Aptera offers an option for either way on the rear hatch solar panels. I ordered the roof/hood solar combo without covered rear hatch since I would like to at least have the option to turn around and look, plus I don't want to feel like I am driving a blacked-out coffin down the road. 😊 Glad none of it is an issue for you.
https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/6052bde7140f6500155c8fcc the strip might be a problem for allowing emergency exit, although door do have emergency mechanical door opening stuff built into door...
people saying the strip looks like its going to block some vision for driver out the window close to driver despite being sort of thin b/c its so close to eyes.
talk about alternative window designs there too, im betting the on one i posted where the window slides back over the cabin like minivan doors, so no strip needed at all.
It shouldn't necessarily be claustrophobic, though the eye-level mid window frame solid band will definitely create lateral field of view blockage, unfortunately. Lots of good discussion about this issue in earlier posts, if interested.
Just saw the picture of the Sol. No spit window on the passengers side
Here's an image of Representative Scott Peters in Sol: I understand that Rep. Peters is over 6' in height...
I still think a mountain out of a mole hill. Also supposition at this point since a vehicle is not available for inspection by prospective buyers. With similar speculation, I would estimate that this feature as a deal breaker for purchase is quite small. This "Engineering Company" with a small staff and shoestring budget has made quite a splash in the market place. Engineering led is the proper business model at this point but needs to transition to a market focus as the vehicle is made production ready. I see a lot of Market focused competitors on line with their vapor ware right now. Appealing pictures and computer generated videos.
Drivers actually do look to the side, especially in urban environments, or when admiring scenery on a road trip, or when reading signs, or etc. The majority of the time is focused forward, obviously.
The nice thing about sunglasses is that when you turn your head, the "bars" (temples) rotate with your head, so the visual obstruction completely disappears when direct viewing to the side. Not so with this fixed window structure.
Aptera has briefly stated that the bar will be well above eye level. For instance, the FAQs spreadsheet says "It does partially block your view of the birds". None of the prototypes we have seen so far support that statement. It will be great when they can provide confirmation. In addition, if they are able to lower the seat, then that still has "costs": less space to add cushioning, anthro shaping, and adjustability, plus a more go kart-like driving position which generally increases pressure points on the buttocks since support under the thighs gets reduced. Also, the same problem will still exist, though it just gets shifted to taller drivers / passengers. Given the videos and photos sent out so far, it will be interesting to see how much of a difference up to two inches of seat lowering would actually make, TBD.
Even if people either unquestioningly think this is fine or just don't care about it since they want everything else Aptera offers, hopefully we can at least agree that this bar is not a "good" thing by itself. If you could still get an opening window and the aerodynamic numbers were the same, I am fairly confident that most people would choose not to have these field of view blocking bars. Few people would choose it as an option over a clear unobstructed side window. So, it all boils down to trade-offs and personal priorities / preferences. I disagree with Aptera's trade-off decision on this particular item, though some other folks are fine with it. Cool. Aptera is an engineering led company, not a market led or even customer led company at this point. That results in terrific specs and groundbreaking new concepts, though increases the risks for it still being around as a profitably sustainable company in 5 years. There is a balance point on all such things without easy answers, and none of us have a crystal ball.
Aptera has stated that the bar will be well above eye level in the production version. They are moving the seats down two inches and increasing the height of the passenger compartment in the beta vehicles.
@Kerbe #12705 You are of course entitled to your opinion, though I strongly disagree on this one. I professionally worked on field of view design for cockpits, so I believe I have a degree of understanding of what is going on here. This design issue is worse than essentially any A pillar or any rear view mirror on 99+% of cars in the world, and it is obviously not in the same location as an A pillar or a rear view mirror. It will impede lateral field of view. Just look at the picture I posted above. If that doesn't bother you and you want to bob your head up and down trying to see things, that is completely fine, but claiming a "fact" that it will not impact a driver's lateral field of view is incorrect.
I love the Aptera in general, though feel this particular item was not a good design trade-off decision made by the team. I'd personally much rather lose a few miles of range (that already beats everything on the potential market by a massive margin) than have this obvious field of view blocker 1 foot from my eyes 100% of the time. At best, it will be annoying. At worst, it could be unsafe. I bet you will understand it better when you actually sit in an Aptera and when a new passenger negatively comments on it.
Nonetheless, I am not looking to argue. Just calling a spade a spade. Aptera is a terrific vehicle, though not a perfect vehicle.
Claustrophobia is a medical condition that has little or nothing to do with "field of vision" - it's triggered by enclosure or the perception of enclosure.
The important fact for non-claustrophobic persons is that the frame member that separates the openable from the fixed door window in an Aptera will have little to no impact on the driver's field of vision - no more so than that A-pillar or the rear view mirror: Most drivers will see "around" it.
No more claustrophobic than riding in your current car with the windows up and your air conditioner or heater on
https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/6052bde7140f6500155c8fcc the strip might be a problem for allowing emergency exit, although door do have emergency mechanical door opening stuff built into door...
people saying the strip looks like its going to block some vision for driver out the window close to driver despite being sort of thin b/c its so close to eyes.
talk about alternative window designs there too, im betting the on one i posted where the window slides back over the cabin like minivan doors, so no strip needed at all.
It shouldn't necessarily be claustrophobic, though the eye-level mid window frame solid band will definitely create lateral field of view blockage, unfortunately. Lots of good discussion about this issue in earlier posts, if interested.
It should not be claustrophobic, because the interior is roomy, and you can open both windows while bringing in fresh air with the ventilation system.