Aptera side windows like GMA T50

@Len A full unbroken window can still be tinted more at top than at bottom, if that is what you desire. And tinting might only make it less "noticeable" only because there is a break between higher darker window tint and lower less/no window tint, if that is what you are getting at. None of that tinting preference actually removes or helps with the visual blocker, of course. Your preference for the "cockpit look" is certainly an individual personal preference, too. The vast majority of cars (not aircraft :-) ) of course do not intentionally impede visual field of view in this way, for the many valid reasons already discussed.

So, I hear your preference of liking the look of an aircraft that is not actually designed for road usage 😉. Nonetheless, I still strongly believe their current design remains problematic for the vast majority of people and it is poorly designed for real world scenarios. Again, 99.9% of cars in the world do not do this for important reasons. Some things are good to be "different" (of which there are already many on the Aptera), and there are some things that time has tested to show that being different for different sake is not a good idea.

Exactly

As I said “ I hear you”

Personal choice

I am ok with a full glass side window too, like I had in my Aptera 2e ride in in 2009

Because aerodynamics is a top priority for Aptera.

I doubt they did tgat split windiw design for “a look” but more because of the things lije....confines in the door, door weight/ total vehicle weight, preserving max

range, cost... They preach lean/simple manufacture????

Sometimes original designs become the most collectable vehicles!

I know my kid will cherish it when I pass on.

It looks like the split window is gone in their other “napkin sketches” ,where the broader conventional doors easily allow a fuller window

I am too old to wait 😔 beyond ~2022😉

@Len for Len and his grandchildren, we will consider a sunroof made of solar glass, it is pushed up by hand, the angled acts as an aerodynamic spoiler

@junk Agreed that your idea would be preferable to the current design. If they cannot do @loswa's first idea of having one piece of unbroken glass that just does not go down all the way, then yes this would be another better option than the current design (which is located at just about the worst possible height). Thanks for sharing the idea!

😯 But lowering the window bar by 4 to 6 inches would fail "The Big Gulp" requirement! 😄

@kiteboarder Agreed and well said. I believe that, in this case, they are letting their engineering-optimization minds overpower their usability and appeal/driving experience minds. They already have achieved so many incredible technical goals with the Aptera design. If they want this company to be more than yet another entry in the history books of flash in the pan / early adopter car companies (and there are MANY), they need to address things like this. Just waving it away as if this unfortunate design detail is pre-destined to be an absolute necessity is short sighted, in my opinion. They will soon run out of the techno / eco / early adopter folks like us who might be more forgiving of design flaws that the rest of the car & driver universe does not consider to be acceptable. Making it a 2 seater already significantly reduces their potential market. They need to remove as many other barriers as are under their reasonable control, especially in this world where well funded EV competitors are rising fast and some people can make car buying decisions based on whether or not a car has a good enough cup holder. 😉

@loswa can you please provide some context on your posted image? Did you create this, or is it from somewhere else?

@kiteboarder and @Len, Agreed, though popping it out would adversely affect the aerodynamics a bit. However, it would be an optional pop-out at optional times. The single vertical bar would certainly be much less of a visual obstruction than the current official long horizontal approach that spans a far wider range across the lateral world's field of view.

Nonetheless, I believe that @loswa solution idea #1 (with the full window that only goes down part of the way) is the best all around solution so far: it offers an unimpeded side view for better driving/field of view experience and safety, yet still provides lots of open air for ventilation or paying at a tollbooth or getting a hamburger at a drive thru. And it presumably would actually provide the same or even better aerodynamics than the current official proposed Aptera design since this alternate approach has no raised structure/bar, therefore no breaks in air flow, and therefore no added turbulence across the single continuous curved glass window. Any additional turbulence caused by having the window embed itself in a catch U-profile lip higher on the door frame could be offset by these other benefits. And the entire field of view blockage issue is then fully addressed since there is no long visual blocker anymore.

@Len Thanks for the test, but the proportions would still have to be adjusted a little. Can you do another test drive?

I got a good idea from what I did

What pictures don’t capture is actually what our two eyes working looking around the nearly horizontal line !

Try it yourself

Hopefully “ you will see”😉

As I suggested... you can double the width if like

Move the windiw up and down as it gives other level views too

@Len Wow, great idea and really cool that you did this. Your electrical tape is thinner than the actual Aptera visual blocker plus likely a bit further away from your eyes given the stronger curvature inwards of the Aptera's exterior shell. Nonetheless, great idea to do this!

I have a human factors engineering degree and previously worked in aircraft cockpit design, including addressing field of view. I still believe this will be an issue and a detrimental part of the current configuration from all the photos and videos I am seeing from Aptera. Nonetheless, it is nice to hear that it does not bother you personally. Great idea, Len!

@loswa Thank you. I recommend solution #4: They should hire/consult with you!😁 Most of the rest of the Aptera design “thinks outside the box” in a positive way, though they have unfortunately limited themselves to a problematic design so far on this specific issue and perhaps could use some external solution-oriented thinking about it.

Those are all pictures of rear view blockers, not side view blockers. Per my inputs above, side view blockers is a much more significant issue than a rear view blocker (especially in the Aptera, where the unaided rear view blockage will be 100% with the full solar panels option and this will be addressed through indirect cameras/display for those people who want this option).

@dtmattijetz Yes, the Prius has a bar across its back window. However, that is a whole different ballgame than blocking the side view plus having the "bar" be a foot away from your eyes. I am not concerned about the rear view, since I believe most drivers are not enjoying the outside view of the world or looking for safety items in their already-gone-by rear view anywhere near as much as they are in the side view (and front view, of course). Many people here are even placing a reservation for the full solar package, which will obliterate 100% of the direct unaided rear view and be completely reliant upon a camera-based rear view "mirror". In comparison, the side view blockage is not addressed in any significant way by the rear view side "mirrors" (cameras on interior displays), since they will be an artificial (indirect) view facing at a backwards angle analogous to regular car rear view mirrors. These side view window "bars", as currently designed, will significantly block the side view of the world.

Just for me personally, if it came down to a choice between having this poorly implemented field of view blocker or having retractable windows, I would actually go so far as to choose to have solid / non-retractable windows. Having non-retractable windows would be annoying occasionally, while the view blockers will likely be more frequently and consistently annoying plus a potential safety issue in some scenarios. Non-retractable windows would likely make the ride even quieter than it already is anticipated to be due to more solid window edge seals, improve aerodynamics a bit more, and reduce weight/complexity a bit. My overall preference is certainly to have a retractable window design that better accounts for driver and passenger field of view, but for me a non-retractable window would be a second choice in front of the current "distant third" design choice if they are otherwise unable to address this issue well.

Whatever makes you smile.

When the pandemic fades... I will!

@OceanDragon And if they could not go with the better solution that Ioswa has proposed, then I would actually prefer that the movable window be made SMALLER so that the visual blocker is low and only blocks downward view more toward the side road surface (and not out to the rest of the world). Understood that some others may have a different opinion, but just sharing mine. In comparison to the current placement that they have for that semi-horizontal band of window structure, I would be OK with them implementing such a smaller retractable window that would be big enough to reach through and pay at a tollbooth, get some ventilation, and perhaps rest an arm (with the arm rest ability being lowest priority). Main thing would be moving that big visual blocker band down and out of the way. The current location is literally just about the worst possible place that could be chosen for blocking side field of view with that width of a structural band.

@Scott From the few videos that demonstrate actual driving, it appears that the visual line of sight of the horizon is below the roll-down window frame. It would also depend upon one's seat positioning to get the best visual perspective. I for one am not too worried for the solution already exists, it just needs to be incorporated. The current 2 inch upper frame is just not acceptable.

@Len, as I know you would agree, fortunately the Aptera has many other terrific attributes and I am excited about it. Thanks for sharing that 2009 pic; interesting. This is just proof that no car is perfect, including the Aptera. I can foresee this side visibility / field of view blockage coming as an issue for folks. It is unfortunate that the designers cannot better solve this now instead of perhaps doing something later after receiving predictable post-production negative feedback about it. Perhaps it is not feasible for them to provide a good retractable window solution given the exterior shell shape and space available. Nonetheless, this sounds like an area to try a little harder. It would be a great design challenge to get some cutting edge designers tasked with solving it well now instead of perhaps later after the initial production runs. 😊

Shining up the crystal ball, I would not be at all surprised if one of the ways to tell an early Aptera from a later Aptera at a distance will be whether or not it has the side window view blockers, with the later versions perhaps solving a known problem that existed in the initial version. We'll "see". 😉

@OceanDragonYes, I understand why it was designed this way. 😊 That does not change the end result and does not change my comments, though. This window design was a trade-off decision that resulted in a design flaw regarding field of view and visibility. The exterior shell shape understandably took precedence over driver and passenger visibility because of the larger priority on aerodynamics and efficiency. Nonetheless, it will still be an unfortunate impact on the driving experience. I expect that many people will notice it as an undesirable trait of the Aptera when they drive in it, and it will require "just getting used to it". I love the Aptera in general and have sung many praises, but not this aspect for the reasons discussed. As I have said elsewhere, I expect this will be mentioned as a negative in car magazine reviews, etc. when the general public starts to get access to driving it. I bet it will be annoying enough that it will be a higher priority design consideration in (hopefully) future different Aptera models that have different exterior shell configurations.

@loswa Yes, I was wondering if two pieces of glass could slide over one another and not need a structural bridge between them, as well. That would likely result in air gap issues and a need for very exacting alignment, though, so it may be structurally difficult.

Regarding a transparent U-profile, I doubt it would be truly clear enough to still not be a visual distraction. It may let light through, but it would likely have enough distortions in it that the driver and passenger would still need to move their heads up and down to see around it for looking out at the world.

I still believe there are many benefits to your original idea of a single piece of clear glass that just does not go all the way down into the door due to space and curvature limitations of the Aptera body shell design. It may require somewhat thicker interior side panels to fit the curvature of the window.

@loswa If you look at the height of the driver it would be difficult to reach over the window sticking up to pick the ticket at a parking garage or drive thru.

I think aptera's solution is adequate and doubles as a windshield when your drive with open windows.

@BMW Bloch I respectfully disagree on both counts. If you look at the picture that I provided from the marketing video, you can see an example of clear glass protruding up. It would only be difficult to reach over if the upper edge was as high as where the current visual blocker bar is located. And, frankly, even if it was a little bit inconvenient for the .00000001% of the time a driver gets a ticket at a parking garage compared to 100% of the time field of view blockage, I would definitely go with having a better driving experience 100% of the time.

Also, to me, their "solution" is the easy path within their own constraints and has not been properly thought through. The perpetual visual blockage is inferior / inadequate. There is a good reason that only a few corner case cars in the entire world have ever implemented their proposed approach: It is definitely a field of view blocker and also a potential safety issue.

If Aptera wants to go big and make a dent in the world with ongoing orders beyond us early adopter / tech toy / eco types, these kinds of things need to be addressed so that test drives and ongoing real world usage provides positive experiences. To become a sustainable company with broader positive impact, it is not all just about range, batteries, aerodynamics, tech details, etc.