If I were Aptera ... and I'm sure they are too close to a deal to even consider my suggestion - I'd be looking at the closed Sears store at Westfield North Country Mall which has 137,000+ square feet.
Why, you ask, would they consider a retail location like this for their 'assembly factory?'
Excellent question. I propose the only possible reason you would select a mall location for an assembly facility - even understanding that malls are failing - is because the former paragons to consumerism are great places to be seen.
I think the mini-factory concept mentioned here - basically a dozen guys building a car, one at a time, taking care for quality - is a rare luxury reserved for the buyers of cars like the Rolls Royce. But Monro's lean-design approach of assembly simplicity and putting it on stage for all to see is inherently interesting and will stoke interest. "Damn, that thing is really hand-made."
I suspect that such a facility would involve the obvious mini-factory which I will GUESS <-- big guess is 50-60,000 sq. feet. including areas for composite body casts, body and parts inventory, chemical storage and assembly stations (however they are organized.) There would be 5000 sq feet for corporate offices. (I don't believe the parts, solvents and resins associated with the Aptera are particularly toxic; certainly not so toxic as to absolutely prohibit their use in this facility. After all most Sears stores offered auto service so handling dirty oil is a fact. Anyway, supplier displays, the broadest selection of EV parts and components that could possibly include an EV recycling center that stocks replacement parts from EV wrecks or even recycles them)
So you've got all the bays at this store that used to sell steel belted radials, batteries and service. The bays include lifts, etc. giving you the option to engage artisans who do things like convert old MGs to electric ... and can help distressed ladies with Chevy Bolts and BMW i3s.
The thing I think most folks miss is there are many innovative products that include a battery powered, solar fueled, electric motor. An example of a product the world could use more of is this 'robot' designed to sift sand and remove crap like plastics from the beach. No doubt many suppliers might also be interested in establishing a presence as this facility, even if it is only a zoom capable kiosk. Some may even be so bold as to contract EVWW to produce innovative products under contract.
Indeed, the thing I'm betting on is the product innovations that are almost guaranteed to emerge when you - for the first time really ever - build a community of people devoted to efficiency in production and movement of people goods and services as a first principle.
DON'T FORGET, These mini-factory/retail/education centers I envision preach lean-design in any product category. Recognize, these EVWorldWorks multipurpose facilities would be the first to become a hub of collaboration among and between the folks, including engineers, on what new things that move can we make and manufacture with this resource.
The resource is simply the ability to cast and assemble light, strong, composite monocoque bodies for vehicles. Different vehicles, different molds. With in-wheel motors, your in luck as they come in different sizes and configurations and can be intelligently adapted to anything from autocycles to pickups; delivery drones to flying cars.
Imagine EVWorldWorks as a kind of a world of the future display with an operating 'artisan' manned, assembly factory with, I'm sure among the 15 or more EVWW locations, some that will excel in upgrading interiors while another may brainstorm the "follow me" app, quite likely as a way to 'tow' an Aptera behind a RV.
So, the display for Elaphe might feature the Aptera prominantly but would also offer a kit to hybridize my '04 Dakota to 4WD with independently powered front in-wheel motors. (Epiphany - If you add front in-wheel motors to a rear drive car, you can control the vehicle using torque-vectoring to turn and accelerate and regenerative braking lets you stop. It is quite possible government policy will incentivize electric retro-fits even if the original ICE drive train remains operable. It boggles the mind).
And while this all is inspired by the Aptera, the lean-design assembly concept is capable of building other EVs, starting with one of Monro's favorites - the Kobe. It is also among Monro's stable of three-wheelers along with Archimoto and there is a place for them and for other new designs coming up. I would suspect these entities, and maybe a few more, might be sub-tenants at this EV-World Works.
Battery companies might like the location as they may be able to introduce, even for testing, new battery chemistries in the Aptera battery box. If, as Nathan Armstrong asserts, you can take an Aptera apart and put it back together with something like five wrenches, two screw drivers and a couple of hours. Anyway, because testing data of all kinds is available through Aptera (data is also IP folks) other manufacturers wanting to test components may well select Aptera as a test mule.
If, perchance they hit a home run with a new integrated 5-g controller that incorporates the follow me app, then this product developer could advertise his unit as an upgrade to the standard controller. Because EVWW is an educational/collaborative outfit, it would, after testing, be able to market the upgrade through other EVWW sites.
I'll predict that with the advent of Aptera, the most perfect example of personal transportation in 2021, there will be an effort to more fully use the enormous capabilities for customization from tweaking motors for, say greater acceleration or racing to the integration of inter-car communications, including access to the cameras and sensors in the car ... not to mention the various other apps from parade mode to follow me trailering.
The pioneers for that will be part of the collaboration about EV adoption and, of course there would be a video production setup for YouTube covering these artisans as they innovate and manufacture our transportation future. (Yeah, that would include a Starbucks).
For that matter Monro & Associates could offer not only their services but access to the production capability of the envisioned 'chain' of EVworldworks' assembly, parts, repair and conversion facility.
There is one more function this facility would provide and that is training so there would need to be some class and conference rooms. From a mankind standpoint; and given the threats to society of climate, nuclear war, famine and social disintegration, I think it important that the knowledge of how to build these highly efficient cars ought to be widely dispersed.
This facility would then serve as a template for others, each designed to fit into a new, independent company largely because you want a little space between the stock Aptera and some of the things independent people exercising their right to repair and improve will offer performance modifications to owners.
The point is you have to put the mini-factory somewhere. If you could tie it to a more broadly targeted EV centric retail/repair/innovate center, you would be literally hedging your bets on the Aptera.
Future expansion would copy the key elements so closely I suspect that Transformco might have a few dozen former Sears stores (or leases) available.
With the federal push to up manufacturing of EVs in America, I suspect that there may be some funding for expansion of these assembly factory/retail locations nationwide. The folks holding the leases on these stores are also well connected in these local markets and may provide material assistance, especially when it comes to gaining a tax reduction on the property taxes of these closed stores.
Further, I do believe, if Monro were in this plan to expand the hand-crafted assembly to a contract service to build first the Aptera but then also the Kobe, etc. he could shake the trees and investors would appear like apples on the orchard floor.
Then you have, in very short order 15 independent EVWorldWorks parts stores, education centers, with conversion and assembly capabilities that could be produce 150,000 Aptera by Spring 2023. Oh, and without AMC having to capitalize much but the first one. And because of it being one of the key owners of the 'franchise' it gets priority on production. But the central point is that jobs, good jobs are distributed broadly in the nation as well as the knowledge of how to build them.
Oh, and they're built early enough and in great enough quantities that we show we have a chance to subdue climate disaster.
While I really do like your forward thinking, I think your ideas are good after a few years of production, as many other companies would have to want to fold in with this plan. I can't think of a better use for all those abandoned Sears locations, and you know they are located near a workforce and customer base. If they were producing several models then they might need a greater area of manufacturing and might be able to go it alone.
I wonder if the author is making a mistake. I believe how electrical connection of the cells inside the battery is made, is separate from the BMS (Battery Management System).
I would like to see them move to the Lancaster/Palmdale area, outside of Los Angeles. Perhaps BYD can be kicked out of their building and Aptera use it.
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Unknown member
Aug 06, 2021
I personally hope they find a home in Phoenix, so that I can sign an NDA and work as a volunteer manufacturing and process engineer for them. Plus, our lease rates in the North valley are pretty reasonable per square foot.
The 3rd Quarter 2022, I believe, was a 'typo' ... as that implies a jump from Sept. 2021 a full additional nine months. When I first came on, the start date for production was estimated in December 2021 or more likely the first quarter of 2022 (Jan.-March) so the third quarter of '22 represents a three-month delay in my mind.
That said, maybe they're doing the under-promise, over-deliver tactic that tends to build confidence. This may also allow them some additional time to shake out kinks in their supply chain.
Hope so - to many yesterdays have passed since I started wanting one, like 3600.
Nothing to do with this conversation really, but tonight I just saw a good ( all-be-it brief) segment on MSNBC Chris Hayes show re; electric vehicles future.
"The company would better hurry. The last deadline it gave for production start was Q3 2022, and it is yet to produce its Beta prototypes. Before that, it expected deliveries to start by September 2021 in the worst-case scenario. Considering how close we are to September,"
They are saying the start date is Q3 of 2022!
I hope the article is wrong. Last I heard was January of 2022.
I'd think a reliable source of compressed air for tool use could also be located in virtually any open space since it only requires a compressor & either grid power OR solar/wind with battery backup.
I understand what Sandy Munro said is that practically all that was needed at a manufacturing location for Aptera was open space and a reliable source of compressed air for tool use. Search for the video on Dodge Viper assembly, this was a Munro and Associates endeavor and is not a traditional auto assembly factory as it mostly hand assembled the Dodge Viper.
Reno, Nevada is the place to be. Lots of sun and open roads for testing. Close to two major rail lines and I-80 but also Interstate 11 is new and will join with I-80 there as well.
Tesla batteries are there and other batteries may be there as well since Nevada is where any US sourced lithium will probably originate. Drive up to Lake Tahoe in less than an hour to beat the heat!
I believe their long term game plan is to have several small factories scattered throughout the world, starting with the USA. I think that is mostly what Munro was working on. Making assembly easy and super efficient keeps quality control problems to a minimum. Having several smaller factories can make some things harder, but many things easier. When you have designed a super efficient factory that can produce 10K cars per year, you can replicate that operation over and over again near customer hubs. I could see a dozen factories in the US alone over the next decade. I am not sure if that will help with their future sedan and other model operations. Some parts may be common but most probably not, so they may have separate mini factories for different models. I did not read or really hear this anywhere, it just makes good sense to me.
Due to the way the Aptera is assembled, the "factory" would not need to be a traditional style automotive assembly plant, but rather a set of warehouses. That should allow a significant amount of flexibility with respect to where they can locate. Assuming they develop a good QA/QC process, I imagine the "factory" location would be driven by the geographic region where the demand is greatest.
@993cc Political power is always destructive, on net. For example, the EV1 wasn't made to promote EVs, quite the opposite. They hired the world's expert in EVs to build it and he quit in disgust after a few months because they were obstructing him. The EV1 was supposed to prove EVs were impractical.
Govt. can NEVER mandate (force) innovation. It can only get out of the way. Does CA do that? I think not. Ask any businessperson in CA.
@993cc Did the States go from 3rd world, e.g., 95% farmers, to not just world leader in standard of living, 5% farmers, in one century because of what the politicians forced them to do? Or, was it lack of govt., a mostly free economy, capitalism? Meanwhile, the rest of the world's governments fought change while their people emigrated to America.
Maybe I'm just a pipe dreaming, but with SoCal property prices being what they are I think they should probably open a plant in the middle of British Columbia. ;)
If I were Aptera ... and I'm sure they are too close to a deal to even consider my suggestion - I'd be looking at the closed Sears store at Westfield North Country Mall which has 137,000+ square feet.
Why, you ask, would they consider a retail location like this for their 'assembly factory?'
Excellent question. I propose the only possible reason you would select a mall location for an assembly facility - even understanding that malls are failing - is because the former paragons to consumerism are great places to be seen.
I think the mini-factory concept mentioned here - basically a dozen guys building a car, one at a time, taking care for quality - is a rare luxury reserved for the buyers of cars like the Rolls Royce. But Monro's lean-design approach of assembly simplicity and putting it on stage for all to see is inherently interesting and will stoke interest. "Damn, that thing is really hand-made."
I suspect that such a facility would involve the obvious mini-factory which I will GUESS <-- big guess is 50-60,000 sq. feet. including areas for composite body casts, body and parts inventory, chemical storage and assembly stations (however they are organized.) There would be 5000 sq feet for corporate offices. (I don't believe the parts, solvents and resins associated with the Aptera are particularly toxic; certainly not so toxic as to absolutely prohibit their use in this facility. After all most Sears stores offered auto service so handling dirty oil is a fact. Anyway, supplier displays, the broadest selection of EV parts and components that could possibly include an EV recycling center that stocks replacement parts from EV wrecks or even recycles them)
So you've got all the bays at this store that used to sell steel belted radials, batteries and service. The bays include lifts, etc. giving you the option to engage artisans who do things like convert old MGs to electric ... and can help distressed ladies with Chevy Bolts and BMW i3s.
The thing I think most folks miss is there are many innovative products that include a battery powered, solar fueled, electric motor. An example of a product the world could use more of is this 'robot' designed to sift sand and remove crap like plastics from the beach. No doubt many suppliers might also be interested in establishing a presence as this facility, even if it is only a zoom capable kiosk. Some may even be so bold as to contract EVWW to produce innovative products under contract.
Indeed, the thing I'm betting on is the product innovations that are almost guaranteed to emerge when you - for the first time really ever - build a community of people devoted to efficiency in production and movement of people goods and services as a first principle.
DON'T FORGET, These mini-factory/retail/education centers I envision preach lean-design in any product category. Recognize, these EVWorldWorks multipurpose facilities would be the first to become a hub of collaboration among and between the folks, including engineers, on what new things that move can we make and manufacture with this resource.
The resource is simply the ability to cast and assemble light, strong, composite monocoque bodies for vehicles. Different vehicles, different molds. With in-wheel motors, your in luck as they come in different sizes and configurations and can be intelligently adapted to anything from autocycles to pickups; delivery drones to flying cars.
Imagine EVWorldWorks as a kind of a world of the future display with an operating 'artisan' manned, assembly factory with, I'm sure among the 15 or more EVWW locations, some that will excel in upgrading interiors while another may brainstorm the "follow me" app, quite likely as a way to 'tow' an Aptera behind a RV.
So, the display for Elaphe might feature the Aptera prominantly but would also offer a kit to hybridize my '04 Dakota to 4WD with independently powered front in-wheel motors. (Epiphany - If you add front in-wheel motors to a rear drive car, you can control the vehicle using torque-vectoring to turn and accelerate and regenerative braking lets you stop. It is quite possible government policy will incentivize electric retro-fits even if the original ICE drive train remains operable. It boggles the mind).
And while this all is inspired by the Aptera, the lean-design assembly concept is capable of building other EVs, starting with one of Monro's favorites - the Kobe. It is also among Monro's stable of three-wheelers along with Archimoto and there is a place for them and for other new designs coming up. I would suspect these entities, and maybe a few more, might be sub-tenants at this EV-World Works.
Battery companies might like the location as they may be able to introduce, even for testing, new battery chemistries in the Aptera battery box. If, as Nathan Armstrong asserts, you can take an Aptera apart and put it back together with something like five wrenches, two screw drivers and a couple of hours. Anyway, because testing data of all kinds is available through Aptera (data is also IP folks) other manufacturers wanting to test components may well select Aptera as a test mule.
If, perchance they hit a home run with a new integrated 5-g controller that incorporates the follow me app, then this product developer could advertise his unit as an upgrade to the standard controller. Because EVWW is an educational/collaborative outfit, it would, after testing, be able to market the upgrade through other EVWW sites.
I'll predict that with the advent of Aptera, the most perfect example of personal transportation in 2021, there will be an effort to more fully use the enormous capabilities for customization from tweaking motors for, say greater acceleration or racing to the integration of inter-car communications, including access to the cameras and sensors in the car ... not to mention the various other apps from parade mode to follow me trailering.
The pioneers for that will be part of the collaboration about EV adoption and, of course there would be a video production setup for YouTube covering these artisans as they innovate and manufacture our transportation future. (Yeah, that would include a Starbucks).
For that matter Monro & Associates could offer not only their services but access to the production capability of the envisioned 'chain' of EVworldworks' assembly, parts, repair and conversion facility.
There is one more function this facility would provide and that is training so there would need to be some class and conference rooms. From a mankind standpoint; and given the threats to society of climate, nuclear war, famine and social disintegration, I think it important that the knowledge of how to build these highly efficient cars ought to be widely dispersed.
This facility would then serve as a template for others, each designed to fit into a new, independent company largely because you want a little space between the stock Aptera and some of the things independent people exercising their right to repair and improve will offer performance modifications to owners.
The point is you have to put the mini-factory somewhere. If you could tie it to a more broadly targeted EV centric retail/repair/innovate center, you would be literally hedging your bets on the Aptera.
Future expansion would copy the key elements so closely I suspect that Transformco might have a few dozen former Sears stores (or leases) available.
With the federal push to up manufacturing of EVs in America, I suspect that there may be some funding for expansion of these assembly factory/retail locations nationwide. The folks holding the leases on these stores are also well connected in these local markets and may provide material assistance, especially when it comes to gaining a tax reduction on the property taxes of these closed stores.
Further, I do believe, if Monro were in this plan to expand the hand-crafted assembly to a contract service to build first the Aptera but then also the Kobe, etc. he could shake the trees and investors would appear like apples on the orchard floor.
Then you have, in very short order 15 independent EVWorldWorks parts stores, education centers, with conversion and assembly capabilities that could be produce 150,000 Aptera by Spring 2023. Oh, and without AMC having to capitalize much but the first one. And because of it being one of the key owners of the 'franchise' it gets priority on production. But the central point is that jobs, good jobs are distributed broadly in the nation as well as the knowledge of how to build them.
Oh, and they're built early enough and in great enough quantities that we show we have a chance to subdue climate disaster.
I wonder if the author is making a mistake. I believe how electrical connection of the cells inside the battery is made, is separate from the BMS (Battery Management System).
I would like to see them move to the Lancaster/Palmdale area, outside of Los Angeles. Perhaps BYD can be kicked out of their building and Aptera use it.
I personally hope they find a home in Phoenix, so that I can sign an NDA and work as a volunteer manufacturing and process engineer for them. Plus, our lease rates in the North valley are pretty reasonable per square foot.
The 3rd Quarter 2022, I believe, was a 'typo' ... as that implies a jump from Sept. 2021 a full additional nine months. When I first came on, the start date for production was estimated in December 2021 or more likely the first quarter of 2022 (Jan.-March) so the third quarter of '22 represents a three-month delay in my mind.
That said, maybe they're doing the under-promise, over-deliver tactic that tends to build confidence. This may also allow them some additional time to shake out kinks in their supply chain.
The article says:
"The company would better hurry. The last deadline it gave for production start was Q3 2022, and it is yet to produce its Beta prototypes. Before that, it expected deliveries to start by September 2021 in the worst-case scenario. Considering how close we are to September,"
They are saying the start date is Q3 of 2022!
I hope the article is wrong. Last I heard was January of 2022.
I'd think a reliable source of compressed air for tool use could also be located in virtually any open space since it only requires a compressor & either grid power OR solar/wind with battery backup.
I understand what Sandy Munro said is that practically all that was needed at a manufacturing location for Aptera was open space and a reliable source of compressed air for tool use. Search for the video on Dodge Viper assembly, this was a Munro and Associates endeavor and is not a traditional auto assembly factory as it mostly hand assembled the Dodge Viper.
Reno, Nevada is the place to be. Lots of sun and open roads for testing. Close to two major rail lines and I-80 but also Interstate 11 is new and will join with I-80 there as well.
Tesla batteries are there and other batteries may be there as well since Nevada is where any US sourced lithium will probably originate. Drive up to Lake Tahoe in less than an hour to beat the heat!
I believe their long term game plan is to have several small factories scattered throughout the world, starting with the USA. I think that is mostly what Munro was working on. Making assembly easy and super efficient keeps quality control problems to a minimum. Having several smaller factories can make some things harder, but many things easier. When you have designed a super efficient factory that can produce 10K cars per year, you can replicate that operation over and over again near customer hubs. I could see a dozen factories in the US alone over the next decade. I am not sure if that will help with their future sedan and other model operations. Some parts may be common but most probably not, so they may have separate mini factories for different models. I did not read or really hear this anywhere, it just makes good sense to me.
Due to the way the Aptera is assembled, the "factory" would not need to be a traditional style automotive assembly plant, but rather a set of warehouses. That should allow a significant amount of flexibility with respect to where they can locate. Assuming they develop a good QA/QC process, I imagine the "factory" location would be driven by the geographic region where the demand is greatest.
Given the unfriendly business climate in California they should move state.
Maybe I'm just a pipe dreaming, but with SoCal property prices being what they are I think they should probably open a plant in the middle of British Columbia. ;)