Charging levels and charging rate

Power cord current carrying capacity is determined by its ability to manage heat. Longer and thinner cords have more resistance and generate more heat at a given voltage. Higher voltage reduces the amps (current) and thus the heat in the cord while delivering the same power (watts). Hot external temperatures will reduce current capacity as will bundling with other wires.

The outlet is important too. Several 500e users have melted their plug in worn-out extension cords or low-grade outlets. Whenever possible, replace the 99-cent outlet with a $5 heavy-duty one. Also best to avoid plugging/unplugging the EVSE's less easily replaced plug. I leave mine plugged into an easily-replaceable surge-protector using its switch to shut off. When I need to unplug, I unplug the easily-replaced surge-protector from the easily-replaced extension cord.

Length matters. My short 14ga 25' gets warm to the touch when I use it, but no warmer than the EVSE's 14ga cord itself IN MY COOL UNDERGROUND GARAGE.

For hot locations, especially in the sun with a dark-colored cord, I, too, would recommend going shorter if possible, or one size thicker. My coworker's 10ga 100' is fine in the sun, but possibly only because it's yellow. Same for my friend's neighbor: YELLOW 12ga 50' in the sun. Also note that it nearly never goes over 90F here.

As for extension cords, there's really no such thing as "standard" gauge. Here's the consensus for the most common OEM EVSEs (12A), with ratings based on Googling several different "extension cord load chart", & more conservative recommendations in bold based on multiple reports of users' short-term failure (18ga) or long-term success including but not limited to myself (14ga 25'), a friend (16ga 50'), her neighbor (12ga 50') & a coworker (10ga 100'):

- 10awg is fine for 100 feet. .It's rated for 150 feet at 12A.

- 12awg is fine for 50'. It's rated for 100 feet at 12A.

- 14awg is fine for 25'. It's rated for for 75', sometimes even 100', but that seems risky.

- 16awg gets warm, especially if coiled upon itself. It IS rated for 50', so for emergency use check periodically for heat.

- 18awg melts! DO NOT USE!! It's so thin that many charts don't even list that thin at all!

OOPS! Bad wording on my part 7 days ago on this thread. I'll attempt to clarify here:

90% efficiency at 120V 12A 1.44kW, would be 0.144kWh wasted every hour of charging ON 120V. THAT number could be used to calculate money wasted by not using 240V.

Charging on 240V takes half as long, saving that 0.144kWh every HALF hour (0.288kWh saved every hour of charging on 240V).

@Knix Zoe on 5kW charges about as fast as an Aptera on 2kW, & you can get that on 125V L1, at least here in the US.

That's IF the car will take it. For example my Fiat is limited to 1.75 & I've heard that Chevys are limited to 1.5, by their onboard chargers.

@Knix Okay, but the OEM chargecord adds 130 miles overnight on only 120V (260 miles on 240V) so I don't see why you'd need any more than that, at home.

Where I live, public L2 is also 10 times more common than DC, & lots of the L2s are free (at least 20 of those right on my normal 16-mile one-way drive), but they're all 6.6kW, adding about 25 mi/hr on my "average" BEV, & adding about 31 mi/hr to an Apera, even with its current spec of 3.3kW L2.

We have a 22 kW wallbox (limited to 9 kW since our main fuse is only 11 kW) at home for charging our Zoe. Increasing the L2 charge rate, at least as an option could be a major advantage, at least here in Europe where public L2 chargers are 10 times more common than fast chargers, and often have cheaper charging rates.

A 22kW L2 charger could be a real contender to fast charging for the Aptera.

@spacepilot Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will reply, but in the mean time:

The 500e OEM wall plug gets SO warm that some owners have had theirs melt even on 120V. Yet many users plug it into 240V without melting. So it seems that total wasted heat energy may be the same at either 120 or 240V. Since the latter recharges in exactly half the time, that's half the waste & double the efficiency.

I believe it's about 90% efficient at 120V 12A 1.44kW, which would be 0.144kWh wasted every hour of charging. Or 0.144kWh SAVED every hour by charging on 240 instead. You'll have to do your own math for the cost of a 240 outlet vs. savings per year at your own power rate & hours of charging per year.

Isn't it easier to use off-the-shelf charging calculators to calculate? For example, if I could see Aptera inside a calculator https://evadept.com/calc/, it would be easier to calculate. I think others would support me. Right now I have to look for a similar model, which is time consuming. Write the calculator's support specs of Aptera and it would make our lives a lot easier 👍

Much like dhapp above, you can likely simplify it greatly:

#1: Your 20A existing circuit is more than enough to recharge 130 miles every night. If that's sufficient, stop reading here.

#2: Adding a 50A 240 circuit for either the OEM cord or a $159 Amazon unit gives you 260 miles every night. If that's sufficient, stop here.

#3: Adding the cheapest plug-in Juicebox or Open brand unit will max out a 3.3kW Aptera. You might even find an off-brand 3.3kW for less on Amazon.

Forum hid my reply above, so here's a copy:

@fanfare Not a "dumb question" at all!

On 120V every non-Tesla OEM unit I've seen is 12A, except VW id4 which is only 10, for some bizarre reason, but either way, a 15A circuit is all you really need*. 12A adds about 13 miles per hour to an Aptera.

On 240V most OEM 120V chargers will work, at the same amperage, doubling their 120V charge speed (26m/h for Aptera).

For max-L2 charge speed Aptera is considering a 3.3kW "half-speed" onboard charger, at about 30mi/hr for Aptera & really only requiring a 20A* 240V circuit, but if it's a short run, 50A won't cost much more, & will make it "future-resistant" for adding a 2nd EV.

IF they go with a more standard 6.6kW, that's about 63mi/hr requiring at least a 40A circuit*.

*to retain 20% safety margin.

Aptera Range at Speed Spreadsheet | Aptera_Motors

I think someone did the ballpark math on that in a different thread.

I believe Aptera's specs are actually only based on the EPA COMBINED rating (avg 48mph, peak 67?).

HOWEVER, me, my two friends driving 500Es & all the many other FIATs I've met (at local public chargers), get MORE than the EPA combined rating. For example, the latest rating system gives it 83 miles combined, but I get 100 miles, at 75% city/25% highway.

Either way though, higher speeds & sub-freezing temps will definitely reduce range.

Remember that these range estimates are based on the EPA highway mile rating. If you are driving 65-70 on trips, your range will br significantly less.

Those details allow me to be even more specific for your exact use. Keep in mind that if 400 mile range doesn't quite meet your needs or placate your wife, you could consider the 600 (although maybe the wait is even longer?).

Overnight* L1 recharges more than FIFTEEN of your maximum 60-mile round trips per week (910 mi/wk, 47,000 mi/yr).

IF you do no more than 2 of those per day, then every single morning you'll always be topped up with 400 miles available for a spontaneous bird chase of 500-miles (250 each way).

An Aptera 600 would make it all the way to the bird & back home**.

An Aptera 400 would need 100 miles added at any point(s) between 100 miles from home on the way out, & 100 miles from home on the way back.

On L2 that takes 3.25 hours at the 3.3kW minimum Aptera is considering.

Hopefully they'll go with the standard 6.6, but that's still 1.6hrs.

Better yet, on DC at 50kW (minimum Aptera is considering) it takes 12 minutes.

I would check my area's PlugShare.com map of L2 (J1772) & DC. Most of the latter have both plugs (CHAdeMO & CCS Combo Charge System), but you can filter PlugShare for either or both just to make sure you're all set no matter what socket Aptera ends up with.

If you want to join those speculating if Aptera will have Tesla Supercharger access, you can filter PlugShare for that too.

* 1 hour dinner/TV, 8 hours sleep, 1 hour getting ready to leave again.

** Unless it's sub-freezing.

@dhapp It's not overly complicated:

J1772 is the only connector for all L1 & L2 charging, including OEM & public*. Aptera WILL support that. No "speculation", according to their own FAQ.

*The only exception is Tesla's socket & OEM plug. But the car comes with a little J1772 adapter (as will Aptera, IF it comes with a Tesla connection) in order to use all the other sources.

Aptera's published specs:

- J1772 on 120V (L1): THIRTEEN mi/hr, 40 miles in 3 hours, 104mi during 8 hours of work or sleep.

- J1772 on 240V (L2): minimum 3.3kW, for 40 mi in 1.3 hrs, 240 at work or sleep.

- DC (plug type TBA): minimum 50kW, for 500 mi/hr, 100 miles in 12 minutes)

I asked the question directly once and received the reply that it will be able to use the J1772 connection. I don't know if that means you will need some kind of adapter or not, but it will be compatible.

John,

I think it depends on where you have lunch.

If they have 50kW DC charger you can replenish the 350 miles in about 45 minutes.

Regarding the J1772 connection... I think that is Level 2; I am not sure whether the Aptera will support that. The basic household plug, that charges at about 17mi/hr seems to be established as a standard part of the Aptera. There is some references to having different modes of charging available, but exactly which ones seems to be speculation.

So what I am reading indicates to me that, say I owned a 400-mile range Aptera, I could not manage a road trip across country, where I might be fully charged when I leave one location, drive 350-ish miles, stop for lunch for an hour and fully recharge my Aptera in order to drive another 350-ish miles before stopping for the night to camp and recharge overnight using RV camp site electrical outlet using just the standard J1772 connection - correct?

Exact specs aren't very important to me either, since Aptera will almost certainly offer at LEAST the following rather fast options at a bare minimum:

12A L1 (40 miles in 3 hours, 104 during work or sleep)

3.3kW L2 (40 mi in 1.3 hrs, 240 at work or sleep)

50kW DC (500 mi/hr, 100 miles in 12 minutes)

One thing Aptera needs to clarify sometime is in one place on their website it is stated that you can get 100 mile of range in 10 minutes. That implies a 60 kw rate if the vehicle is using one kwhr to go 10 miles. I believe in the response to questions there was a statement that they are considering a 50 kw DC fast charging rate. That would not get you the 10 miles per minute.

It would be nice if the vehicle could charge at 60 kw rate or more. Fifty kw was the old standard, newer vehicles are coming out with much faster charging.

It’s worth noting the elephant in the room. At whatever charging rate that you find yourself with access to, you are going to recharge miles per hour at about a 2-1/2 times faster rate than just about any other EV on the same charger. That’s a game changer that combined with the generous range will mean you can charge when and where ever is most convenient.

I reckon I will plug mine into a L1 charger overnight once or twice a week. And if there is a string of sunny summer days, not at all.

Whew! I was concerned I made it overwhelming.

One more strange tidbit I left out is that the standard J1772 connection has a built-in 16A limit on 120V, but some cars limit it to 12A on 120V. So even with a 40A unit, on 120V you still only get 12A. However, IF Aptera allows the full 16A on 120V, just getting a cheap 16A unit & plugging into an extension cord in a standard 20A 120V wall outlet will add about 17 mi/hr, 40 mi in about 2.3 hrs, 139 mi in 8 hrs, or 170 mi "overnight"

0-100%: 24 hrs.

Wow! Great answers and explanations. Thank you.

Level 1 - requires no mods. It's only 12A*, so even an extension cord in the outlet of my own garage's pathetic 1946 15A circuit works fine.

* Every non-Tesla EV's OEM unit that I'd seen was 12A, until I saw the brand new VW id4 is only 10A!

12A adds about 13 mi/hr to an Aptera, fully recharging the US average 40 mile drive in about 3 hours, 104 miles during 8 hours of work or sleep, or 130 miles "overnight" (1 hour for dinner & 1 hr for breakfast?). In the unlikely event that isn't fast enough for you....

Level 2 - Electrical modifications aren't always needed. Neither is an additional device: Most OEM units will run off 240V from an extension cord to a dryer or oven outlet, using an Amazon adapter or 2: IF your plug doesn't match any of the 3 available 240V adapters, one additional Amazon adapter is needed to match your plug. IF you are already using the dryer or oven outlet, Amazon has splitters, including automatic ones ("dryer buddy").

12A OEM unit on 240V adds about 26 mi/hr to an Aptera, fully recharging 40 miles in about 1.5 hours, 208 miles in 8 hours, or 260 miles "overnight".

Aptera is considering a 3.3kW onboard charger, so in the extremely unlikely event you need even faster home charging, even the cheapest L2 unit at 16A would max out the car, adding about 30 mi/hr to an Aptera, fully recharging 40 miles in about 1.3 hours, 240 miles in 8 hours, or 300 miles "overnight".

IF Aptera goes for the standard 6.6kW onboard charger, max charge rate requires at least a 28A L2 unit, adding about about 60 mi/hr to an Aptera, fully recharging 40 miles in about 40 minutes, 480 miles in 8 hours, or 600 miles "overnight".

DC - (technically we're not "supposed" to call it "Level 3"🙄) Aptera is considering a 50kW limit, adding about 500 mi/hr BUT most likely only until it gets to about 80% capacity, at which point it will likely drop to about 6 or 7kW.

You will find yourself with a fully depleted battery about as often as you find yourself with a fully depleted gas tank, which is to say never, or at least very nearly never. IF that ever happened, to get to 100%, a 400-mile Aptera would take about:

L1 12A: 31 hrs.

L2 12A: 15.5 hrs.

L2 3.3kW: 13.3 hrs.

L2 6.6kW: 6.75 hrs.

DC 50kW: 2 hrs.

Greetings,

The Aptera site shows under Technology: 110 (120)v 13 miles/hr 400/1. = @31 hrs. (This compares to @4 miles per hr charging at 120v for my Chevy Bolt). Level 3 about 100 miles in 10 mkns. So not I clouding any slowing at 80% as most do 40 mins for 400 miles (this is extraordinary). I don't remember seeing 240v on their website but it's usually @7 times faster than 220v so 91 miles/hr or @4.4