Good choice, but not for the reason you think. Range will still likely drop by about 1/3 when it's freezing, but mostly not from the power draw of cabin heat. It's the battery's own power drop from freezing:
Cooling: I tested my 500e range with A/C when it was warm out & couldn't even detect any range loss compared to no A/C when it was cool out. I then learned the battery efficiency increases when hot, peaking at around 125F*, so greater battery efficiency compensates for the power use of A/C (about 0.25kW, after about 5 min of 1kW to cool it down).
Heating: Aptera may come with an inefficient resistance heater like mine, but that's still only about 1kW (after about 5 min of 6kW to warm it up). By comparison, driving 60 takes about 17kW. Slowing down 1mph saves more than 1kW.
Battery: The battery itself temporarily loses capacity at low temperature. For a demo, get a free phone app like AccuBattery, that shows voltage, put it in the freezer for a few minutes & the voltage plummets, then bounces back when it warms up.
That's why you get SO much better winter range by simply timing it to be charging when you unplug to drive, preferably after 5 minutes pre-heating the cabin while plugged in. Aptera has SO much range though that it's not much of an issue.
*Note that while 125F may be ideal for EFFICIENCY, it is FAR from ideal for longevity, which peaks at LOW temperatures.
Kinda wondering the power consumption of the heating /cooling system. My friend has a volt and with the lo range of that and winter driving it zaps the range by a 1/3...OH no...so that is why went for the 600 mile range one..to account for the power draw..thanks
Ride comfort - how is this ride thought to feel like as compared say to my Yukon which is really comfortable and which softens all the road imperfections nicely. I remember riding in a friend's Corvette years ago and feeling as if it was a pretty direct connection from the bumps in the road to my seat. Not at all comfortable.
There's a good snow thread on the general forum (click here).
Line 76 of their FAQ spreadsheet says it will have a heat pump heated seats and steering wheel, but line 133 says "it may only have resistive heat". Even the latter works fine in the similarly-small cabin of my 500e, taking about 1/2kWh to heat it from freezing, & then about 1kW avg continuously.
Line 65 says "With all-wheel-drive and vectorized torque control, Aptera handles very well in the snow and ice. We are designing specifically for a lot of the cold countries that love electric vehicles. The Aptera will have a full climate control system capable down to -20 and up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit. With our sandwich core composites body offering great insulation and a nice heater, it’s very comfortable to drive in the winter..."
I know from personal experience that even cars that are lighter than Aptera work fine in snow. Tires that are narrow enough to still sink into the snow seem to help. Aptera's smooth 9" high belly would seem to help also.
I really appreciate all the input and insights. These are giving me more confidence in the Aptera being suitable for winter conditions. Thanks very much!
@Paul Harsch The cool thing with cabin preconditioning in an EV is that, if the vehicle is plugged in at the time, running the heat or the AC won't draw from the battery - it will use power from the grid!
..., at least partially, depending on the supply voltage & ambient temp. I had my friend's dark grey EV plugged into 120V once in about 85F ambient, afternoon sun, & with A/C at 78F it was depleting the battery.
Still better for the battery level than doing that unplugged.
@kiteboarder Most EVs and PHEVs won't precondition on L1 - the draw is greater than most 15A circuits can handle. They will, however, on L2 or DC. There are warnings about not attempting L1 preconditioning in most owner's manuals... Teslas won't draw line current to precondition unless the SOC is at 80% or lower: If the pack is fully charged it will draw from the pack until there's room for charging. My Clarity draws from the pack to precondition but simultaneously recharges when plugged into an L2 EVSE.
@Kerbe #12705 Thank you. I am really hopeful this will manage our cold winters, ice and snow but I doubt it will be as sure footed on snow and ice as my Yukon. You can't have it all. The huge plus for me is the potential for zero or very low cost for battery recharge.
It does, and it is very well insulated with its sandwich core composite construction. The solar also allows the interior to stay at ambient temps on hot days so you don't have to cool the car down before driving in the summer.
Good choice, but not for the reason you think. Range will still likely drop by about 1/3 when it's freezing, but mostly not from the power draw of cabin heat. It's the battery's own power drop from freezing:
Cooling: I tested my 500e range with A/C when it was warm out & couldn't even detect any range loss compared to no A/C when it was cool out. I then learned the battery efficiency increases when hot, peaking at around 125F*, so greater battery efficiency compensates for the power use of A/C (about 0.25kW, after about 5 min of 1kW to cool it down).
Heating: Aptera may come with an inefficient resistance heater like mine, but that's still only about 1kW (after about 5 min of 6kW to warm it up). By comparison, driving 60 takes about 17kW. Slowing down 1mph saves more than 1kW.
Battery: The battery itself temporarily loses capacity at low temperature. For a demo, get a free phone app like AccuBattery, that shows voltage, put it in the freezer for a few minutes & the voltage plummets, then bounces back when it warms up.
That's why you get SO much better winter range by simply timing it to be charging when you unplug to drive, preferably after 5 minutes pre-heating the cabin while plugged in. Aptera has SO much range though that it's not much of an issue.
*Note that while 125F may be ideal for EFFICIENCY, it is FAR from ideal for longevity, which peaks at LOW temperatures.
Kinda wondering the power consumption of the heating /cooling system. My friend has a volt and with the lo range of that and winter driving it zaps the range by a 1/3...OH no...so that is why went for the 600 mile range one..to account for the power draw..thanks
Ride comfort - how is this ride thought to feel like as compared say to my Yukon which is really comfortable and which softens all the road imperfections nicely. I remember riding in a friend's Corvette years ago and feeling as if it was a pretty direct connection from the bumps in the road to my seat. Not at all comfortable.
There's a good snow thread on the general forum (click here).
Line 76 of their FAQ spreadsheet says it will have a heat pump heated seats and steering wheel, but line 133 says "it may only have resistive heat". Even the latter works fine in the similarly-small cabin of my 500e, taking about 1/2kWh to heat it from freezing, & then about 1kW avg continuously.
Line 65 says "With all-wheel-drive and vectorized torque control, Aptera handles very well in the snow and ice. We are designing specifically for a lot of the cold countries that love electric vehicles. The Aptera will have a full climate control system capable down to -20 and up to 125 degrees Fahrenheit. With our sandwich core composites body offering great insulation and a nice heater, it’s very comfortable to drive in the winter..."
I know from personal experience that even cars that are lighter than Aptera work fine in snow. Tires that are narrow enough to still sink into the snow seem to help. Aptera's smooth 9" high belly would seem to help also.
Just get those hand warmer packs, you'll be fine
Heat pump for winter?
From the"Performance" section of the FAQ:
Does Aptera have air conditioning?
It does, and it is very well insulated with its sandwich core composite construction. The solar also allows the interior to stay at ambient temps on hot days so you don't have to cool the car down before driving in the summer.
SS
Yes. Hopefully variable speed compressor like other electrified vehicles. But details TBA.