Poll: What is your main interest in the car?

That's a darn shame. And here I was planning to do my cross-country business trips by hopping through camping sights with the camper option. IMHO it's unfair to put the much more efficient Aptera in the same category as the other EVs.

@Len that was posted by me, jim stack. I don't know how it got shown with the other persons name as the person posting???

@jstackeaa Scary. You may want to report that to info@aptera.us or Sarah directly . Forward this thread ( a choice in top right three dots) might be an option???

@Len here's your link, shortened... t.ly/lRQR

@Kerbe #12705 Very kind of you. Thx !

@kiteboarder Road fees may have made sense in 1950 but as fewer people own cars, fewer people drive and ownership becomes distributed these fees need to be eliminated.

Roads being a public good should be funded out of general funds to force accountability, and indeed 90% of road funding is not from registration fees or gas tax

as long as a special road registration tax exists it can be used as an excuse to avoid budgeting appropriately and avoid liability for choosing not to devote money to roads.

If road taxes and registration did not exist you could vote out legislators who choose to budget other things over roads or have a conversation about what is getting the overall tax money.

A used BEV can be had for $2000 on up

But who is going to pay a $665 title+registration on a $2000 car that can’t drive more than 50 miles at a time in good weather?

Would be similar to saying a moped instead of paying a biannual fee of $23 should instead pay $665 because it gets too good of mpgs

In Wisconsin there WERE people who bought the $2000 BEVs before the taxes kicked in, they disposed of them after the tax took effect

Instead of subsidizing the purchase price just get rid of the extra taxes on the car and some people will buy the old limited BEVs

If we want to tax BEVs we should be looking at luxury taxes (not road tax) if we are indeed worried about evs over a certain price point not paying their fair share (whatever that is)

You would likely find that in many areas very few have paid for an expensive bev.

There are only 3500 BEVs out of millions of cars in my state, seems irrelevant to road funding.

@Ryan May 1950 had 40 million cars. 2020 has 290 million.

@doclees1 In 1950 90% of freight was sent via train, today the opposite is true.

there were also 75% fewer people and the real combined tax rate on “normal “ Americans was 75% lower

in 1950 novelty and fun cars were extremely rare, today the number of households with 3 or more cars has skyrocketed and close to 100m “collector/secondary “ cars are on the road.

the only vehicles causing road damage are all commercial and likewise should be the only ones paying registration and wheel tax.

our government spends billions of dollars on the collection of private registration fees, in the form of legal, judicial, policing and notary.

As this pandemic has shown registration fees especially high ones are regressive and simply cause the poor and unemployment to not legally drive, many areas have seen a tripling of the number of unregistered cars.

Gas tax is 99% efficient at getting into the fund, fees are rarely more than half efficient with most being lost to legal/enforcement costs.

The reality is it’s a waste of resources to have annual registration on private cars and the costs and benefits of us subsidizing semis should be bore by everyone by coming out of the genre fund similar to any other public good

@Ryan May Is that a one-time fee or is it annual?

@Kerbe #12705 A portion is one time, another portion is re-occurring

the one time fee is equal to about 15 years of gas tax on a normal economy car

@Ryan May Ours, in MS, is annual - and it's about 200% of what an ICE vehicle pays in fuel tax. Autocycles are classed as motorcycles here, though, so it will be only half of what an EV pays: Electric motorcycles and hybrids are currently $75/year and full EVs are $150/year.

I am disappointed with Arcimoto. It was supposed to start at $11,xxxk but now is $17,900. Not so great for an opened cockpit medium range vehicle. They don't even seem to offer the original fully enclosed option anymore. Don't see it as anything more than a very small market.

@Kerbe #12705 I'm not asking for you to show me. I'm asking for the company to show me. It's not my job to hunt down these things for a product. It is the seller's job to convince me their product is worth the money. So far Aptera doesn't have a product. They have a concept and maybe a proof of concept. They want me to promise I will buy to buy a limited use vehicle still in the development stage from a company that has collapsed once before. "Prototype", "still in development", just like Lit, just like Elio.

Now why would I need to question major, proven car manufacturers. They have proven themselves. Plus they are not producing a limited market vehicle.

You prove my point with the Model 3 and Pickup truck. Practical with decent to excellent payload/towing capacity. Not 2 seaters with barely enough cargo space for overnight luggage. The polar opposite of the Aptera. I completely, as will most pickup truck owners, that trucks are of limited use. If that were the case the F150 wouldn't be the best selling vehicle in the US.

I have no need for a sympathetic hear. I was simply responding to the survey question. Human nature, I've watched for decades. Probably the best research one can do. When the potential buyer to the Aptera weighs the cost vs the benefits they will balk. That is unless you are like some of us that like quirky science projects. Just doubt that will be enough to make production a reality. As MB found out 1276 buyers for the last electric EQ isn't enough to keep the parking lights on.

Just because I strongly doubt this will make it doesn't mean I don't want it to become a reality. If someone wants to "save the planet" they would be better off putting that money into solar electric and geothermal. Better for the environment and far better for the wallet.

@doclees1 No one is making you promise to buy - the fully-refundable deposit is just a "show of faith" that requires interested parties to prove their interest. It's little more than a place-holder in a reservation line. It doesn't guarantee you a vehicle - it grants you the opportunity to actually make a pre-purchase deposit and some future date. If you'd read the reservation agreement you'd see that not only will buyers not have to commit to the purchase until their vehicle is ready to be built, but they'll have seven days or 1000 miles in which to return it for a full refund AFTER the purchase.

Again, you haven't done your homework: "Barely enough cargo space" - Aptera has 25 cubic feet of storage space. A Prius has 21.6. A Model 3 has 15. A Camry has 15. A Cadillac CTS has 13.7. Get your facts straight.

Perhaps you mean the MB B-class - a vehicle that got only 87 miles of range and has since been replaced by the EQC line. The B-class electric did poorly in the US and was on sale for only 4 years: 2013-2017. It did significantly better in Europe, selling for an additional two years. It used a Tesla-built drive train in a very popular, usually diesel-powered vehicle and was an experiment for the company while they worked to engineer their own electric drive train in a dedicated from-the-rubber-up EV.

Also, towing with a Model 3 voids the warranty. And an F-150 is rated at 24 mpg: It's designed to be a work vehicle but most drivers use it for commuting and the occasion run to the home center for DIY or gardening supplies. If the 3.15 members of your family are squeezed into the cab - and you haven't paid extra to cover or enclose the bed - your groceries are going to be all over the neighborhood. So, yes: Limited practicality.

Aptera is pioneering no new technologies: It's simply using existing, proven technologies in novel ways, all geared toward efficiency. It's the product of thorough and exhaustive state-of-the-art computer modeling: Nothing about it is an unknown commodity. When the next two prototypes are completed we'll start to see real-world testing of those computer results. The founders didn't "decide" to say the vehicle will have a range of 10 mi/kWh - the data generated from testing their computer models gave them that figure. They're not making claims they have no intention of proving.

Elio went off the rails the minute they decided to spend 3/4 of their capital to build a new 3-cylinder engine when both GM and Ford had crate engines of the same size and spec available for sale. The kept announcing new future partnerships and hiring more and more Board members and managers with Detroit backgrounds and connections. They made promises they had no intention of keeping, just as they'd done before. If Aptera drags on for another two or three years and produces nothing, THEN I'll be only too happy to agree with you. But, for the time being, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

To doclees1: What makes you think Elaphe would spend any time, effort or money on this project if their motors were not in this car? Sandy Munro has thrown his name behind Aptera, and that's proof enough for anyone.

Yes, I see VW-based trikes in that line now, as well as the narrower Harley & Goldwing trikes. All that is required is a motorcycle license plate.

ANY BEV on 110V will fully recharge the average daily drive overnight. Of course if your drive is above average that won't work.

After more than 400,000 miles on 2 wheels, I have regretfully decided it is time to retire from them with the onset of vertigo. The Aptera will be more fun to drive and a big upgrade in the camping department compared to the Insight.

Bruce, glad you had a safe 400k miles. I have. two sad stories with friends on two wheels On:

Motorcycle where the friend lost his leg after a vehicle accidently brushed against him on the road

Bike- My friend was killed by a buzzed/drink driver that hit him biking legally in the shoulder

Many safe years in Aptera!

🤣

Are you me? :)

@n.bruce.nelson

Mine is the green one (Citrus Yellow they call it). I have had it from new. Still drives like a champ

@Kerbe #12705 Ya, a little thing like lowering 2" reportedly gives about 18% range increase on a 500e.

@kiteboarder I'm imagining driving THAT lowrider through East LA - and giggling!

@Percy Zahl Bikes pretty much aren't designed to be on ANY rack in ANY orientation - they're designed to be ridden! 😁

@Percy Zahl it's pretty much accepted that towing anything will cut an EVs range in half - and an empty standard roof rack will decrease the range by 10-15%. But I know from personal experience that Seasuckers have minimal impact because they are so much smaller and closer to the roof. Once you start attaching cargo to racks, though, the inefficiency climbs and the range drops...

I'd love some one with a prototype Aptera to do a real world test drive with a bike on top and :)

@Percy Zahl At present there is only one prototype rolling - and it's nowhere NEAR production-intent. As Aptera doesn't seem to have plans to offer their own bike transportation method, I'm guessing it will be up to eventual owners to conduct experiments of this sort.

They have a vision below, but let’s get this roadster on the road with an amazing company first! It seems if there will ever be a future three wheel version with a third seat it might only be possible with the 25kWh pack

@Len Understood. I didn't mean three seats, I meant two in Tandem. But yea, let get the current designed model out there first!

@Tom Kruer I'm not so certain about the "smaller motor" idea: EV motors are all rather small and lightweight when compared to an ICE of comparable horsepower. With FWD the Aptera uses two 50 kW motors for a total of 100 kW and AWD adds a third 50 kW motor for 150 kW total. Each motor weighs just under 51 lbs. and requires its own controller/inverter.

To compare, the Nissan Leaf motor is 110 kW, weighs 128 lbs. and requires one controller/inverter. The Chevy Bolt motor is 120 kW, weighs 168 lbs. And also requires only one controller/inverter. The Leaf offers battery packs of either 40 or 62 kWh, the Bolt 66 kWh and the Aptera 25/40/60/100 kWh.

So drivetrain weight is pretty much equal across the board: What Aptera does differently is that it wraps this heavy machinery in an ultra-light, ultra-aerodynamic body, allowing the drivetrain to expend less force to move it along, thus requiring less power to achieve the same result. That's the "secret sauce" of Aptera's optimized system.

@Kerbe #12705 I do not disagree. In fact, I believe we are saying pretty much the same thing. If the Aptera was significantly heavier, there would be the need for more power to get the vehicle rolling (notice that I did not say car), and larger batteries to provide that power. As Colen Chapman would say, Aptera has been "designing in lightness" from the very beginning.

Of course, the weight of motors and batteries are both coming down with the advent of Induction Permanent Magnet Synchronous (IPM-SynRM) and solid state battery technologies. I suspect that Aptera is on the leading edge for their use.

How far do Sparks go on a single charge? I almost bought one but I forgot.

@David Marlow I was watching a video made by someone in Washington state who was trying to buy a Kia eNiro and, when she couldn't get an in-state dealer to get one for her she tried Oregon and California. She described the events I related. As I said I, too, had no difficulty living in Mississippi and buying a car in Louisiana...

@Len I've heard - so don't quote me - that if you buy a vehicle in CA you must pay to register/license it in CA (and pay CA sales taxes) - and then pay to do the same thing when you get it back to your home state. I live in MS but bought my PHEV in a neighboring state which had reciprocity - the dealer was able to process the purchase as if I'd bought it in MS. So it might be significantly less expensive to buy your Aptera online and have it trucked to you, Tesla-style (as they do in those states that don't have a Tesla "brick & mortar" presence).

@Len The paperwork with the pre-reservation deposit states that, after delivery, there is a 7-day/1000 mile return policy. I'm guessing it would be wise to stay within 500 miles of the factory for that first week of ownership... 😁

@David Marlow Thing is when I bought the Volt I needed 4 seats and sometimes could've used 5. Now I rarely need more than 2 so the Aptera could work. For the times I need more cargo passengers, I'll use the SUV. Got to run it once an awhile anyway. Not seriously even shopping until the Volt is gone. Not when it would cost me likely even more money for the same non-stop range. That's for the last 10% of the gas that the Volt uses.

@David Marlow The order number is not he same as your likely spot to get order processed, and vehicle built. Not only are there only about 10K orders, but many of the ones "ahead" of you may not be built till after yours (like overseas orders or down the road configurations (like 100KWh battery).

@#20116 According to Aptera, the 100kwh models are scheduled for the fourth build in the first set of vehicles produced. (No real number that we know of for that run, but I'd be willing to bet on it being well shy of 1,000 units.)

#1 for me is self charging (Living in an apt with no charging infrastructure) 2. Efficiency. 3. Repairability / right to repair is a big deal, especially for long term use.