Yes, Elio had great success with the state legislatures. That’s why only a handfull still require helmets for Autocycles. Elio failed because they just ran out of money during vehicle R&D by trying to please everyone. Lesson? Local market FIRST!
You are right in all points - no discussion about it. That's why we want an Aptera in Europe and no other conventional EV-SUV. Unfortunately, the laws speaks against it. In our case 15 cm/6 inch width stands against it. And also against Aptera opening up a larger market.
What would you do, if you couldn't get an Aptera, because of 6 inch width - ideas are always welcome.
As I see it, the Aptera is uniquely suited for the American market - and I'm not talking about the width. Several other major reasons:1. European governments tend to provide generous incentives for buying EVs. That's why EVs are selling so well in Norway despite the higher sticker price. In the US, the only way for EVs to win over ICE cars is to lower the manufacturing cost, so they can be sold cheaper than ICE cars even without government incentives. Improving aerodynamics is a good way to do this (by achieving decent range with small batteries).
2. Europe doesn't have urban sprawl to the same extent US does, and therefore driving / commuting distances tend to be shorter, and average driving speed is lower. So aerodynamics is less important.
3. A 2-seater is practical as a 2nd car for a multi-car family, which is common in the US. It's not as practical as the ONLY car for a single-car family, which is more common in Europe.
That's all right, imo. This is not an attempt to change a near-perfect car for European needs. It is just my own economic opinion, How can as many vehicles as possible be sold in the next few years. Should you sell 500 cars with red tires when you could sell 5000 cars with green tires? ..🤔
Chris has already gained experience with the simple EU wheel cover, on the Epic Torq Roadster EV, we can fall back on his know how, in terms of mounting. The slightly higher drag we can ignore, because otherwise in the USA here is mostly driven in stop and go and the aerodynamics is not so influential.
We could purchase the 4680 batteries directly from Tesla Gigafactroy Berlin. Instead of the obsolete 1865 batteries 😆 that are currently installed. And could then drive 3218 mi/2000 km 😛. We could also order the solar cells together with Sonos. Maybe we will deliver the EU-version to the USA, for a additional charge 😎
Vehicle re-builders who are proficient in Reha vehicles should also have no problem with the conversion of Aptera
Aptera could supply the European market in parallel - here are my explanations:
1. Aptera or we find an assembly company in Europe that specializes in vehicle assembly and a company that manufactures simplified wheel covers from aluminum / carbon (C, D) with the inclusion of the LED lights / turn signals (adopted by Aptera).
Note: Because of warranty claims, it is better if Aptera does the coordination.
2. Aptera supplies to the EU company the US version of the Aptera, without wheel covers, without side cameras.
3. The EU company, removes the front axle and shortens the
crossbar with supply lines, re-welds the suspensions (A), installs the alloy/carbon wheel covers (C), wheel bezel (D), installs the camera/rear-view mirror combination (B).
4. The EU company does the acceptance and delivers a copy of the modified vehicle documents to Aptera.
5. Aptera takes over the warranty on the modified EU vehicle.
The US version differs from the EU version by eff. 7.5 cm / 2.95 inch which have to be shortened on both sides. This shortening will not seriously affect the stability of the vehicle. The steering angle will not be affected by the elimination of the aerodynamic wheel covers, which are replaced by simple covers.
loswa Perhaps you should redraw the arrows on your illustration of the EU version. Is B/2m the overall width of the car or the distance between the center of the wheels? That would make the EU version wider than the US version!
Sales of electric cars in China almost quadrupled between 2015 and 2018, although 2019 saw a decline for the first time. Most of the battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles on the European continent were sold in Norway.In the electric car business in China, the Chinese automobile manufacturers dominate the market. Foreign manufacturers are far behind. Many of the Chinese automobile manufacturers are hardly known in the western world. From statistica.com
They have to prove first that their 3-wheel architecture works overall. The fastest way to achieve that is to go with the 88 inch widht because they have a lot of experience with that layout. In my opinion, that's a mandatory prerequisite for the development of localized versions.
@Max Conrad Yes, according to Ioswa's post Aptera has to develop a version for China first (EV's in 2018...China: 1053k, USA: 361k, Norway: 73k) - or do you mean another post.
i found the ones with the flags next to the Aptera but was wondering if you had one with the American flag actually on the vehicle? Like a car wrap for the body
@Len You are an Aptera ambassador. We have a task for you. San Diego is not so far away from you. Make a trip to Aptera. The weather is also OK with 12 Degrees / 54 Fahrenheit. It is better than a videoconferencing and you see Aptera in reality. Discuss with Aptera the modification of the US version at an EU company (see below). That beats two birds with one stone. Thank You!
I too can’t wait to hear the regional homologation group report out.
I am not an employee...
I can’t wait, like any one, whether they are from CA or any other nearby state, to be invited to see the Dev vehicles ,the new facility etc. No visitation yet announced
The pandemic is limiting any early possibilities tor me.
I am not part of the homologation group that would be closer to this they of work. I imagine as information comes out the company will report out in videos, interviews, the updated FAQ sharing and Yes hopefully ambassador, especially from the country itself or nearby
When I think back to ~2006-2007 when I first found Aptera and living over 2500 mikes away from Carlsbad, back then....... I never even got a ride or an opportunity to ask questions during a crowded roadshow event until 2011 and my state back then may have been one of the later states to get the 2e.
Now is a much better time, things seem to be moving faster, better plan... even with a world pandemic in play😔
🤔Aptera Resurfaced mid 2019
( before the pandemic) yet the first Dev vehicle Driven and shown Dec 2020.
And yes now with a global market... lots to do to deliver a quality safe product
The more things change, the more they remain the same. The wise learn from the mistakes of history.
Yes, Elio had great success with the state legislatures. That’s why only a handfull still require helmets for Autocycles. Elio failed because they just ran out of money during vehicle R&D by trying to please everyone. Lesson? Local market FIRST!
Lobby your lawmakers. That’s what Elio did to make “Autocycles” a thing between Automobiles & Motorcycles. Change your laws to make Aptera work there.
@Ken Kobayashi
You are right in all points - no discussion about it. That's why we want an Aptera in Europe and no other conventional EV-SUV. Unfortunately, the laws speaks against it. In our case 15 cm/6 inch width stands against it. And also against Aptera opening up a larger market.
What would you do, if you couldn't get an Aptera, because of 6 inch width - ideas are always welcome.
As I see it, the Aptera is uniquely suited for the American market - and I'm not talking about the width. Several other major reasons: 1. European governments tend to provide generous incentives for buying EVs. That's why EVs are selling so well in Norway despite the higher sticker price. In the US, the only way for EVs to win over ICE cars is to lower the manufacturing cost, so they can be sold cheaper than ICE cars even without government incentives. Improving aerodynamics is a good way to do this (by achieving decent range with small batteries).
2. Europe doesn't have urban sprawl to the same extent US does, and therefore driving / commuting distances tend to be shorter, and average driving speed is lower. So aerodynamics is less important.
3. A 2-seater is practical as a 2nd car for a multi-car family, which is common in the US. It's not as practical as the ONLY car for a single-car family, which is more common in Europe.
I'm hopefully to get a "downtown- version" that can easily switched to the "highway- version".😃
@Max Conrad
Chris has already gained experience with the simple EU wheel cover, on the Epic Torq Roadster EV, we can fall back on his know how, in terms of mounting. The slightly higher drag we can ignore, because otherwise in the USA here is mostly driven in stop and go and the aerodynamics is not so influential.
Great idea, Loswa! They can get also some expensive parts directly, like wheel motors and maybe batteries.
Aptera could supply the European market in parallel - here are my explanations:
1. Aptera or we find an assembly company in Europe that specializes in vehicle assembly and a company that manufactures simplified wheel covers from aluminum / carbon (C, D) with the inclusion of the LED lights / turn signals (adopted by Aptera).
Note: Because of warranty claims, it is better if Aptera does the coordination.
2. Aptera supplies to the EU company the US version of the Aptera, without wheel covers, without side cameras.
3. The EU company, removes the front axle and shortens the
crossbar with supply lines, re-welds the suspensions (A), installs the alloy/carbon wheel covers (C), wheel bezel (D), installs the camera/rear-view mirror combination (B).
4. The EU company does the acceptance and delivers a copy of the modified vehicle documents to Aptera.
5. Aptera takes over the warranty on the modified EU vehicle.
The US version differs from the EU version by eff. 7.5 cm / 2.95 inch which have to be shortened on both sides. This shortening will not seriously affect the stability of the vehicle. The steering angle will not be affected by the elimination of the aerodynamic wheel covers, which are replaced by simple covers.
loswa Perhaps you should redraw the arrows on your illustration of the EU version. Is B/2m the overall width of the car or the distance between the center of the wheels? That would make the EU version wider than the US version!
Sales of electric cars in China almost quadrupled between 2015 and 2018, although 2019 saw a decline for the first time. Most of the battery electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles on the European continent were sold in Norway. In the electric car business in China, the Chinese automobile manufacturers dominate the market. Foreign manufacturers are far behind. Many of the Chinese automobile manufacturers are hardly known in the western world. From statistica.com
Reply
They have to prove first that their 3-wheel architecture works overall. The fastest way to achieve that is to go with the 88 inch widht because they have a lot of experience with that layout. In my opinion, that's a mandatory prerequisite for the development of localized versions.
@Gerhard Dobler
The US 88 inch version has no chance for EU homologation and certification:
EU vehicle class L7e (3-wheeled):
Road Traffic Licensing Regulations:
B. Vehicles
III. construction and operating regulations
§32 Dimensions of vehicles and vehicle combinations
(9) notwithstanding paragraphs (1) to (8), motor vehicles as defined in § 30a (3) shall not exceed the following dimensions:
Width:
For motorcycles and three-wheeled and four-wheeled motor vehicles 2,00 m.
USA:
AK, MT, WY, NY, MA and ME do not recognize 3-wheels as a special type of motorcycle and therefore require their riders to have a motorcycle license.
Some of them require helmets.
AK does not allow 3-wheelers on highways with a speed limit over 90 mph.
The only chance for an european Aptera is the successful launch of the 88x172 inch US-version. Every thing else is an illusion.