As seen On Twitter here: https://twitter.com/FamilyFirstJ/status/1379870679219150848?s=20&fbclid=IwAR2aZ3LkeZkhdWBApZsR6lId8Euo8NCmvelGo0Hd4cDptuUewB-5Zt1WJnM
Aptera is building the vehicles at Reno, then adding suspension and wheels there (according to the video), and then shipped to San Diego.
What method of shipment is being used? Car hauler trucks have two trays that can carry the front wheels, but they do not have a center tray to carry the rear wheel. Will these be specially modified car haulers, will some other method of shipping be used, or this this a big "OOPS" they forgot?
@kiteboarder Note that Chris' head isn't touching the roof-liner in the video. They originally said the goal was to seat a 6'8" person - but the latest in-print mention was 6'7".
For context: The average American adult male - regardless of race or age - is 5'9": Only 15% are 6' tall or taller.
Just watched a video of a reporter from Transport Evolved getting a ride in an alpha prototype. It looked exciting but the head and shoulder room will need addressing for owners my size at 6'4" 320lbs. He did say the seat will be lower in the production version but closer together. Guess time will tell but not completing my order beyond the $100 until I can sit in and possibly test drive one myself. They also mentioned a SOL version being fabricated in Reno. That would be where I live so made me curious about where that might be.
I have now also watched the video. But, I guess, it really IS just a prototype. He did say there were no window rails evenwe did not get to see:
- doors open or operating
- hatch open or operating
- Center console (software being worked on, but is there software somewhere, still controlling power to motors etc, or is it just "direct connect" or something!)
- and as mentioned.. seats not at correct height, AND final seats not finished design yet
- no look under the hood (which may or may not have an openeing!?)
- no look at the wheel structure.
- and suspension being worked on. no sway bar yet..
I'm still hopeful, but realistic in HOW much work still needs to be done before 1 vehicle is produced on a production line!
@anash As we've seen the doors and the hatch both open and closed it's safe to assume that they have the ability to be opened and to be closed - although we've not viewed either process in action.
The UI software - and how it connects to the operational software - is what he was describing. There was a tablet attached to the windshield that was monitoring/controlling the operational software. There are also some physical controls on the steering wheel and column.
All that's under the hood is the HVAC system, the steering box and the front motor controllers. And, of course, the windshield wipers and washers - and, probably, a horn.
There are multiple images and renderings of the wheels and suspension system available. Cable and hose routing to the wheels on the prototype isn't "production ready" as Elaphe is designing customized motors to make connections simpler.
There are still three generations of prototype to go: It's probably safe to say that all reservations will not be filled before the end of Q4 2021. But that's no reason to despair: Wouldn't you rather they took their time and "got it right" before releasing it to the public?
As far as I understand it, until the noir prototype, Aptera had only computer models. Just as in the Formula One racing, computer models and wind tunnel test do not always match reality, so aerodynamic improvements and all other improvements coming from reality testing are inevitable.
I have heard multiple times, that paint shops are very expensive for auto manufacturers. It is very difficult to get a finish that is guaranteed to be free of particles.
Could Aptera's plan be to use a less expensive (and less perfect) paint shop but get the particle free finish by using a clear wrap that has either a gloss or satin finish? This may be an easier and less expensive way of getting that perfect finish.
The only painting experience I have is with a spray can. I would like to hear your ideas on the subject. Thanks.
@pistonboy We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
@pistonboy We heard today that suppliers from several states and countries are providing parts for Aptera. Final Assembly will happen in the San Diego main facility with electrical done in a smaller San Diego facility.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
@Kerbe #12705 january through march 2020 was Americas introduction to covid. They set the time table for mass production by the end of 2021 at least 8 months after covid lock downs happened. (just saying... they knew about covid... and it's not a valid reasoning.)
Only reason I found it was because I am subscribed to their YouTube channel and it popped up there. Interestingly their chat with the folks at Elaphe a few weeks ago is not there but I got the email linking to it. Not very consistent about how they post things, it seems. That will probably settle down with a little more time.
Remember, a Model 3 reservation was $1000.00 and then an additional $2500 to place the order - which they didn't start filling for nearly two years after opening reservations.
We are just about to enter Q2 of 2021 with only one prototype built and two more in various stages of assembly: To believe that production will begin within nine months is wishful - if not magical - thinking. Aptera can, literally, hand-build one Paradigm and deliver it to claim they've begun production within their original timeline, but hundreds of vehicles rolling out of a just-bought, unequipped facility? Unlikely. I'm thinking 2024 before a larger-scale production ramp-up - and I'm comfortable with that.
UPDATE: We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
Like
Unknown member
Mar 26, 2021
I'm super impressed with Chris and team, and I think they're laser focused. I'd love to help them with DFx (Design for Manufacturability, Design for Serviceability, etc...) I'd work for free or a discount on an Aptera.
I'd not worry too much about the timeline. They know you have to crawl first, walk later, then run. The first model CAN'T incorporate all our wishes, or it would never get launched. Yes, some of our ideas will increase their profits and boost customer engagement and satisfaction, but those can be rolled out on a development roadmap spanning years. I think that's what they're doing from the feedback here: populating some potential waypoints for development roadmaps for the next few generations.
This development stuff is HARD. I do it in medical devices & processes, and cars are like 10x harder in some ways (easier in others though).
Updates are good. I too am a little worried about the timelines. I think the next milestone was to have 2 more prototypes completed by the end of this month. Anyone know how close they are to this?
The first Model can't be 100% perfect. I bet more than 80% of us just want to start driving. (Now that I said it.... I'm not in that 80%... Yes, I know, I just contradicted myself. )
Please note:
I think they are trying their best to incorporate forum content as a direct guide.
I also believe that our conversations (guidance) has proven too much for the previous beta prototype and maintain the promised mileage. That we all agreed to when we placed our orders.
All in all:
I understand the delays. I hope Aptera can stay on the original timeline ( Production: Late 2021)
I do honestly believe the forum wants production and can live with an (hypothetically) inferror car for now. knowing it's the best right now. (We know production will provide large sums of $$$$ for Aptera... allowing them to design and prototype the perfect (3/4 wheeler a lot sooner. As opposed to a shoestring budget for 1+ more years. and no "happy customers")
I Believe the second or third model year should be better in some respects.
We all want to see you succeed. We all want our cars too. Please start making them.
Accepting delivery timeline is important to me.
Like
Unknown member
Mar 26, 2021
While continuous improvement is important, as long as it doesn't slow the production schedule. I would think that most of us would just like to get our hands on one as is.
I think they are just naming their prototypes after their advertised exterior color schemes. The first, Noir, is black. The Sol I expect to be white. Probably a silver Luna third.
In the video, Chris talked about further aerodynamic improvements. It will be interesting to see if the changes can be visibly discerned in the Sol version. Eager to see that. A bit of drag coefficient limbo going here. "How low can you go?" Loving that.
Do you suppose that is "Improve" the drag coefficient above what they had said, OR "Get Closer" to the theoretical computer model numbers, that have been used to date?
I would like to think it is a further improvement. Those aerodynamics engineers they have on staff need to be keeping busy doing something. Looking forward to seeing in due course.
that's looking good... going for electricals....Haven't seen the rear wheel from this angle....
how about simply a flatbed, single vehicle like towing companies use (at least for the prototypes), or transport truck flat bed. (3 or 4 per flatbed?)
Aptera is building the vehicles at Reno, then adding suspension and wheels there (according to the video), and then shipped to San Diego.
What method of shipment is being used? Car hauler trucks have two trays that can carry the front wheels, but they do not have a center tray to carry the rear wheel. Will these be specially modified car haulers, will some other method of shipping be used, or this this a big "OOPS" they forgot?
In the vid, Chris says the seats will be 50mm lower, which is 2"
If he is 6'2, then a 6'4 person would fit in the production car the same as he does in the prototype.
Just watched a video of a reporter from Transport Evolved getting a ride in an alpha prototype. It looked exciting but the head and shoulder room will need addressing for owners my size at 6'4" 320lbs. He did say the seat will be lower in the production version but closer together. Guess time will tell but not completing my order beyond the $100 until I can sit in and possibly test drive one myself. They also mentioned a SOL version being fabricated in Reno. That would be where I live so made me curious about where that might be.
As far as I understand it, until the noir prototype, Aptera had only computer models. Just as in the Formula One racing, computer models and wind tunnel test do not always match reality, so aerodynamic improvements and all other improvements coming from reality testing are inevitable.
I have heard multiple times, that paint shops are very expensive for auto manufacturers. It is very difficult to get a finish that is guaranteed to be free of particles.
Could Aptera's plan be to use a less expensive (and less perfect) paint shop but get the particle free finish by using a clear wrap that has either a gloss or satin finish? This may be an easier and less expensive way of getting that perfect finish.
The only painting experience I have is with a spray can. I would like to hear your ideas on the subject. Thanks.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
Aptera has not informed me of this video. I am surprised.
Have other people been informed of these videos?
Remember, a Model 3 reservation was $1000.00 and then an additional $2500 to place the order - which they didn't start filling for nearly two years after opening reservations.
We are just about to enter Q2 of 2021 with only one prototype built and two more in various stages of assembly: To believe that production will begin within nine months is wishful - if not magical - thinking. Aptera can, literally, hand-build one Paradigm and deliver it to claim they've begun production within their original timeline, but hundreds of vehicles rolling out of a just-bought, unequipped facility? Unlikely. I'm thinking 2024 before a larger-scale production ramp-up - and I'm comfortable with that.
UPDATE: We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
I'm super impressed with Chris and team, and I think they're laser focused. I'd love to help them with DFx (Design for Manufacturability, Design for Serviceability, etc...) I'd work for free or a discount on an Aptera.
I'd not worry too much about the timeline. They know you have to crawl first, walk later, then run. The first model CAN'T incorporate all our wishes, or it would never get launched. Yes, some of our ideas will increase their profits and boost customer engagement and satisfaction, but those can be rolled out on a development roadmap spanning years. I think that's what they're doing from the feedback here: populating some potential waypoints for development roadmaps for the next few generations.
This development stuff is HARD. I do it in medical devices & processes, and cars are like 10x harder in some ways (easier in others though).
Updates are good. I too am a little worried about the timelines. I think the next milestone was to have 2 more prototypes completed by the end of this month. Anyone know how close they are to this?
I like monthly updates!
While continuous improvement is important, as long as it doesn't slow the production schedule. I would think that most of us would just like to get our hands on one as is.
What is the SOL version?
@Max Conrad
Welcome back, I thought you had given up 😴
In the video, Chris talked about further aerodynamic improvements. It will be interesting to see if the changes can be visibly discerned in the Sol version. Eager to see that. A bit of drag coefficient limbo going here. "How low can you go?" Loving that.
Excited to see the SOL version turn into reality.