Aptera in Europe

like europe, japan also has demand for electric, efficient, and apparently unique cars... but also compact cars b/c of its compact roads/cities. china is same, and in china their culture liked big artistic american cars of the 60s or so, such was a status symbol for decades afterward and their leaders used such cars(they are obsessed with differences in social/economic class), plus tesla sold suprsing amount os teslas there, and other electric cars sell well there too, plus china population overall is a lot more than US, and much of them have comparable buying power, thus teh tech companies playing nice with china in order to be able to have market share in china.

india has economic potential plus dense population and demand for efficient reliable cheap ro run small cars too, especially cheap economy scooters/small cars, although dont think they have much buying power or electric car infrastructure over there for now.

a outpost in europe maybe good enough, then the east side of the globe will import from there

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/602459dedb409900170b5f3b https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/606a3df09d95f90015fa3075 ways to allow narrower, shorter car. shorter b/c its more appealing to sporty car market which aptera needs to appeal to b/c not many people want a 2 seater car

Thank you, I agree, it should be not so wide for Europe. Max 2m

@Ron Wilson

Let's hope this time it's more than just hot marketing air 😪

Marketing in Europe? Same as USA. Collect "deposits", promise delivery at a vague, indefinite date, ultimately pull a Paul Elio and ghost everyone.

Do electric cars have horse power ratings? If yes, what is Aptera's horse power?

@Bernard_S Taking the best of two worlds, Aptera design, Toyota i-Road rear wheel steering and tilt technology, i-TRIL design transition of the wheel arches into the bodywork

Hmmm, interesting approach. Rear wheel steering takes some getting used to, although my experience is limited to 1/2hr on a fork lift truck 😁 Maybe some combination of both front and rear would be a good compromise. Say 10 deg movement at the front for general driving and 45 deg at the rear for parking etc.

I always wonder why companies exhibit beautiful prototypes at trade shows and then all produce ugly cars or they are too expensive. There is a market as the interest in Aptera shows. They are destroying their unique selling proposition and reducing their business.

The new one might perform EVEN better, but it seems like the only improvement would be with even stickier tires, which of course are a VERY easy aftermarket upgrade.

Ya. I love high-speed cornering, but they should be able to make it narrower & shorter for my tiny local streets, & still be able to do this:

Aptera "Track" Test Vid

The other factor to consider is why they made the front track so wide .......

https://www.facebook.com/DLRde/videos/1146351502432429/

This is the solution for EU/Germany approval.

Narrow wheel housings and a wheel that moves independently from the wheel housing. Now you can save the 25 cm without changes to the body.

If the width is 2,15m minus ~ 3cm each side tire outer flank = 4,5cm modification of the upper triangle. Lower part and steering should be easy.

"EMV obstacle" is maybe already solved.

I saw an Aptera spec of 77" front track, & 195/45-16 tires. Those are 7.7", with of course half of that extending on EACH side, for a total sidewall-to-sidewall width of 84.7" = 2.15m.

I wonder what the EMV obstacle really is. Bad if it costs a lot for required testing it could be an issue. Not so bad if you just have to take it in for them to walk around it with an EMF meter while it's charging with the heater running.

@loswa Aptera already had their own really cool looking "hot-rod" fenders. I also like the look of the cost-cutting, weight-saving rear skirt delete:

I am not sure if a modification of the front axle is necessary. I still not knowing the width without wheel covers.

The bigger problem is the length. I asked the Degra here in Germany if there is a possibility of an extraordinary admission.

They answered, the biggest obstacle is the EMV (Electromagnetic compatibility).

Those "axle legs" are actually critical-length suspension links, requiring a big redesign, so probably easier to make a slightly narrower central frame, or possibly just slightly inboard mounting points.

An European version would be possible by the following modifications. No modification of the baisis body, no modification of the wheels with the integrated electric drive:

A. Offset of the axle by 2 cm / 0.78 in

B. Shortening of the wheel cover each side so that just the wheel is covered

C. Shortening of the axle legs by 2 cm / 0.78 in each side

Can't you reduce the distance between the front wheels and build a steerable rear wheel like the Unitrak UD12?

Another possibility is a US version reduced by a factor of 1.125, then we have a Euro version.

The only way we can get our hands on a US-Aptera. We buy a used

small plow that we put in the garage. At the KBA we apply for a type approval M1 as an agricultural vehicle with plow.

During a traffic control we are just on the way to the field. 😁

Type approval issued by Kraftfahrt Bundesamt class M1, N1 etc.

https://www.kba.de/DE/Typgenehmigung/Typgenehmigungen/Typgenehmigungserteilung/Liste_Typgenehmigungen/liste_typgenehmigungen_pdf.pdf;jsessionid=AB5D0C8F861140792B181FFF9BCBB67A.live11292?__blob=publicationFile&v=12

https://www.kba.de/DE/Typgenehmigung/Typgenehmigungen/Typgenehmigungserteilung/Spezielle_Genehmigungen/Auslaufende_Serien/aag_Formular_rtf.rtf?__blob=publicationFile&v=18

Well if this is allowed in Europe and is even wider (230cm) than an Aptera should also be possible.

I'm afraid we'll have to wait a few more weeks.

But Aptera will find a solution!

Lots of great points being made (12kWh beats 2020 eGolf's 123mi, more than triple the US average 40mi daily drive), but:

I still want a narrow/short version! Many of my local streets are "Euro-width", with barely space for my narrow car to pass with a wide one coming the other way. Also long parking spots are rare. It doesn't help efficiency to have to drive around 10 blocks just to find a big enough space.

And there the journey ends at the Kraftfahrt Bundesamt (Federal Motor Transport Authority), the Approval Authority and the Technischer Überwachung Verein (Technical Inspection Association).

Maybe it can get approved in the UK, looking to lead the world into green pastures and find a brexit back door to the EU via Ireland;)

It depends how you use this autocycle.

If you drive to work p.e. 15 mile everyday and avoid social contacts in public transportation 25 kWh is enough.

But maybe you are retired and like to travel around you should have a larger battery.

But, neighbors, more important is to get one approved in Europe, SOON!

No range Anxiety in Europe ? It all depends where you leave in Europe. Here In France we do have a range anxiety. I ordered a 60 kWh Aptera (965 km) so I will not be dependent upon the chargers. One trip with no charging so no range anxiery at all ! A 40 kWh battery ( 640 km) would be enough too because you can charge while you pause (biological needs eating, peing and resting). But charging is getting more and more expensive in France and I prefer to charge independently home from my solar pannels, it will be way cheaper.

Considering that we have almost no range anxiety in Europe -- like in the USA -- I think that a 25kWh version would be popular here. I myself would even settle for a 15kWh version.

Weight and range would be quite sufficient for most Europeans.

Why should a 4-wheeled Aptera not be longer than 4 m

https://www.electricbee.co/tesla-opens-first-supercharger-to-the-public/

Maybe it is possible to shorten the nose and tail?🤔

My idea was to leave the L7e class by the 4 wheels and to change into the normal car class, but not to damage the design too much by the double wheels in the back.

Hello Max Conrad,

Then we have to turn a three-wheeled Aptera into a four-wheeled Aptera, but with a tire spacing greater than 460 mm/1.18 inch (Directive 2002/24/EC dual wheels), otherwise it falls into the Ellenator class. But we still have to comply with the 2 m width. Or we reorient to Sondors, Twike5, etc..

Hi loswa,

thank you for the good explanation with pictures.

I found nearly the same solution when I was thinking about a "single - registration" in Germany .

My main problem ist the length of L5e- vehicles = 4 meters max = 157,5 in!😫

A futuristic e-car also needs new types of tires and wheels ....

The European solution, for a total width of 2 m prescribed by STVO:

The oversized wheel covers and possibly narrower tires are replaced.

This allows a reduction of 11.5 cm/4.5 inches on both sides. The prescribed overall width of 2.00 m/78.74 inch is achieved. The body and tie rods are not affected. The turning circle becomes even smaller, since a larger turning angle (H) is possible. The mudguard is replaced by a narrow wheel cover photos A-D. The wheel is covered aerodynamically photos E-G. The use of turn signal LED bands in the wheel covers is possible.

I will keep hope.

From Wefunder december 17:

Hello, are you thinking about how can be the car homologate in some Europe countries? Chris Anthony CEO FOUNDER Dec 17 Of course, we will deliver to the EU soon after the US. Thanks!

Also for L5e - vehicles there are subsidies in some regions of Germany, p.e. in Munich ( till 3000€ ) and Hamburg, but only for companies.😟

Even if the car meets the L5e regulation, it is not classified as a car but as a tricycle and it will not allow subsidies.

We are very interested in ordering an Aptera. This is exactly the kind of vehicle we have been waiting for. However, it seems strange that Aptera Motors does not have the European market in mind. In Germany, where we live, the government subsidises every new electric vehicle bought with 7000€ (9000USD). Therefore, demand for electric vehicles is very high in Germany and consumers are currently waiting up to 18 months for their new EVs. It makes no sense to me that the Aptera is designed in a way that makes it literally impossible to meet European regulations regarding size.

I am also afraid of this, but will it be such a problem to change the body in this small aerea?

Is it not possible to spare 12 cm each side with other wheels and covers? Do anybody knows the W without weels?

For sure those dimensions don't fit european market. 1,9m wide and 4m long should be the maximal dimensions. And L5e should be the target for homologation with limit of 1000kg. I also checked my garage door that is a standard size of 230cm...

Aptera should get their homologation expert on this pronto! It is not that difficult to find all the information online. If they can not get any type approval they should try to give a timeline for it or just say they can not sell in Europe at all. It will help manage expectations.

I would agree with you devix 195 and Ivan Botev, it appears Aptera didn't have Europe in their initial plans. Let them say it plainly and be done with it. I am crushed☹️😥

Looks like for now You are not planning to sell APTERA in Europe ....

This is just to me more clear and to understand. Have you ever driven a Model S in Europe? It's quite big. Can you imagine to parallel park it along a curb (very common)? At least one wheel is out of a Model S shape!

We just need adapted aptera regulations here in Europe that allow companies that are not the big players like VW or Daimler to sell cars. However, I agree that this probably takes longer than resizing and meeting homologation demands.

During the Q&A session they said that they don't know much about EU market, but the idea is to get the necessary approval.

It disappoints me a little bit.

We are not speaking about some minor changes, but huge change in size!!!

https://www.aptera.us/forum/general-discussions/is-anyone-else-from-the-netherlands-ready-to-order we have the same question here. I hope the homologation expert Aptera has can answer this.

This is not answering the question about vehicle dimensions, I'm curious about aptera, so as a potential investor and/or customer from europe would be great to have a more concrete answer to know if the car can be driven in Europe.

I'd agree that it's critical to cover off the European market/regulatory obligations- there's a big market here driven by both commercial obligations and societal aspitarions- the huge taxes on road fuel are not applicable to electric vehicles where the US differential seems lower due to dirt cheap fuel( in comparison to the EU anyway)..