I just read that Toyota is going to be producing EVs using this technology which is superior to our present battery technology. Has Aptera developers looked into this given the advantages of this technology?
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To achieve the lowest 0-60 time I would assume that all wheel drive is required. As I understand it, the 600 mile range battery is lighter in weight but offers less electrical power, and the 1000 mile range battery is heavier in weight but offers more electrical power, so, which battery pack is necessary for the lowest 0-60 time?
I suspect that is true. In any case Super Capacitors are not available at prices suitable for anything but a super car at present. If and when the prices come down and they prove worthwhile, I think we can rely on Aptera to stay on the cutting edge. In the mean time, with right to repair, people with the means and interest can modify their own cars or go to a developing after market for such items.
I just saw a comment that testing has shown that the motors/battery pack can absorb the entire braking energy, thus possibly making the Caliper Disk Brakes unnecessary. perhaps just a single small disk and or parking pawl would suffice. Also, there thus appears to be no need for a Super Capacitor buffer if the batteries can absorb it by itself.
@Don Daniels Conventional and proven battery design already seems excessive, spinning all 3 Aptera tires. Dumping even more power won't make any difference.
As for regen, even my "antique" 2013 BEV's system supplies nearly the entire motor's max power back into the battery, minus a bit due to friction & electrical losses.
Aptera won't have the friction loss of my 4 CV joints & 1-speed tranny full of intermeshing gears, & it might also have better electrical efficiency, BUT it's SO light that there's less energy available even under heavy deceleration.
Max operating current of 2,600A with a short circuit of 12,000A with a max 2.85V voltage.
For a 400V system 140 would be required plus charge balancing, protection and a case, these caps are > $100 each in large quantities making the system >$14,000. A lower F value could be used, the optional value would have to be chosen, hard to imagine a design <$5,000, a large additional price for the Aptera not counting they want to make some money on it also.
One concept might be more conventional and proven battery design, with a small Super Capacitor buffer that could absorb pretty much the full braking energy of a hard stop from high speed, and then either feed it back on the next start, or if extra left over, bleed the excess energy back into the battery packs. Most Lithium batteries can not absorb energy at the full rate of heavy breaking, thus the caliper brakes and loss of some energy as waste heat, but a Super Capacitor buffer could capture that as fast as it is generated, AND it could dump it back into the motors faster than the batteries can for even more whiplash inducing launches for those who are interested in such things. The downside of Super Capacitors is that while they can absorb and discharge at incredible speed, they do not have nearly the energy density of batteries, so using one as a buffer seems the best balance of the two properties.
I don't know the spec on aptera. Can not speak intelligently about what I don't know. I look to newer solar cells as additional benefit. Better batteries are needed everywhere.
If I recall correctly, solid-state has advantages such as charge speed (where Aptera already has a 60% advantage), but cycle life is still much lower than Li-ion.
Even a 1st-gen Leaf battery would be much better in an Aptera, since it would last longer & go further & charge faster, just because of Aptera's efficiency.
Yeah, for me an Aptera makes sense because the battery packs are small enough not to require superchargers. I can easily charge overnight as needed on a Level 1 charger, and it doesn't coast 40k. I'm super excited to get 400 miles of range for the price. And in sunny LA, the solar charging is gonna be sweet. I guess what I'm saying is I'm glad they aren't pushing the tech envelope driving up the price.
Yes, Chris Anthony even founded a publicly traded battery company. They keep up to date on all this technology, perhaps as well as anyone. There is always going to be a performance vs cost vs supply trade off, and Aptera will be high on the curve of optimizing the pieces of this puzzle, which will be constantly changing as we go forward.
A concise article explaining state of the art in solid state batteries.
@993cc Ya LOL, but actually Aptera says they'll have an adjustable charge-stop on either grid power or solar.
To achieve the lowest 0-60 time I would assume that all wheel drive is required. As I understand it, the 600 mile range battery is lighter in weight but offers less electrical power, and the 1000 mile range battery is heavier in weight but offers more electrical power, so, which battery pack is necessary for the lowest 0-60 time?
I suspect that is true. In any case Super Capacitors are not available at prices suitable for anything but a super car at present. If and when the prices come down and they prove worthwhile, I think we can rely on Aptera to stay on the cutting edge. In the mean time, with right to repair, people with the means and interest can modify their own cars or go to a developing after market for such items.
I just saw a comment that testing has shown that the motors/battery pack can absorb the entire braking energy, thus possibly making the Caliper Disk Brakes unnecessary. perhaps just a single small disk and or parking pawl would suffice. Also, there thus appears to be no need for a Super Capacitor buffer if the batteries can absorb it by itself.
@Don Daniels Conventional and proven battery design already seems excessive, spinning all 3 Aptera tires. Dumping even more power won't make any difference.
As for regen, even my "antique" 2013 BEV's system supplies nearly the entire motor's max power back into the battery, minus a bit due to friction & electrical losses.
Aptera won't have the friction loss of my 4 CV joints & 1-speed tranny full of intermeshing gears, & it might also have better electrical efficiency, BUT it's SO light that there's less energy available even under heavy deceleration.
I figure it could be a combination of the 2 technologies, no magic devices avialiable.
For my solar system got used super caps and built a 8000F 32VDC bank, the size of a a 19" rack mount cabinet 6' tall.
Also had to add lots of over current protection as even withe the older devices wit 17 in parallel the short circuit current is 14,000amps.
Newer caps say
https://www.maxwell.com/images/documents/K2_2_7V_3400_ds_3001923_Datasheet.pdf
Max operating current of 2,600A with a short circuit of 12,000A with a max 2.85V voltage.
For a 400V system 140 would be required plus charge balancing, protection and a case, these caps are > $100 each in large quantities making the system >$14,000. A lower F value could be used, the optional value would have to be chosen, hard to imagine a design <$5,000, a large additional price for the Aptera not counting they want to make some money on it also.
One concept might be more conventional and proven battery design, with a small Super Capacitor buffer that could absorb pretty much the full braking energy of a hard stop from high speed, and then either feed it back on the next start, or if extra left over, bleed the excess energy back into the battery packs. Most Lithium batteries can not absorb energy at the full rate of heavy breaking, thus the caliper brakes and loss of some energy as waste heat, but a Super Capacitor buffer could capture that as fast as it is generated, AND it could dump it back into the motors faster than the batteries can for even more whiplash inducing launches for those who are interested in such things. The downside of Super Capacitors is that while they can absorb and discharge at incredible speed, they do not have nearly the energy density of batteries, so using one as a buffer seems the best balance of the two properties.
Any details what a solid state capacitor batterie is?
Since a capacitor stores energy as electrons and a battery stores energy by electro plating material.
Two totally different types of physics.
I don't know the spec on aptera. Can not speak intelligently about what I don't know. I look to newer solar cells as additional benefit. Better batteries are needed everywhere.
If I recall correctly, solid-state has advantages such as charge speed (where Aptera already has a 60% advantage), but cycle life is still much lower than Li-ion.
Even a 1st-gen Leaf battery would be much better in an Aptera, since it would last longer & go further & charge faster, just because of Aptera's efficiency.
Yeah, for me an Aptera makes sense because the battery packs are small enough not to require superchargers. I can easily charge overnight as needed on a Level 1 charger, and it doesn't coast 40k. I'm super excited to get 400 miles of range for the price. And in sunny LA, the solar charging is gonna be sweet. I guess what I'm saying is I'm glad they aren't pushing the tech envelope driving up the price.
Yes, Chris Anthony even founded a publicly traded battery company. They keep up to date on all this technology, perhaps as well as anyone. There is always going to be a performance vs cost vs supply trade off, and Aptera will be high on the curve of optimizing the pieces of this puzzle, which will be constantly changing as we go forward.