Too wide, too long, restricted window opening ....

I hadn't noticed before but I tend to drive around town with my left arm hanging out the window. I wonder if this will be a nagging issue for me. Time will tell.

Regarding WINDOWS: What some seem to see as a shortcoming, I see as an advantage when it comes to comfort while the window is partially or fully open. If you look at it from a practicality point of view this design allows one to benefit from a partially open window without the inconvenience of gusts of wind and also rain. Many vehicles have rear windows that open partially except that it's the top part that opens inconveniently. Even more, rain guards are sold to procure the same advantage.

to remove for the Aptera City- and Offroad-Version

I have a sense of "deja vu" regarding trendsetters dilemmas. Like PC and mobile phone preludes, the advent of Aptera may be a time of hesitation and doubt. Normal. This is not a car, it's a new mode of sustainable transportation whose impact will reflect everywhere. Aptera is to EVs what Model 3 is to Cars. With a drag coefficient no higher than that of a windshield wiper, it is designed for the next generation battery technology awaiting a comparable engineering leap in ultra low rolling resistance "WHEELS". This is first principles "undesigning". Simplify the equation: Getting from point A to point B in the most comfortable, efficient, elegant and affordable (Sustainable) of ways. The rest of the paraphernalia will kick in naturally. Do we have to succumb to ENERGY ?

Uhm, maybe the driver can learn how not to run into curbs !!

Perhaps the title of this thread should also include "too low". This is the pic of the Sol model that was just released. Not only are the pants going to scrape just about every curb, but it looks like even the rear cover is likely to scrape when backing into a spot with a curb.

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/6045a448c98682002b3651f7 how linkages can be setup to allow retracting wheels closer to cabin for driving in crowded areas, there much market for such especially in crowded urban areas which are growing in popularity b/c cheaper living and less travel to business who want to eb closer to customers, etc etc

https://www.aptera.us/forum/aptera-design-discussion/overall-structure-perportion-alternatives the picture that looks like a fighter jet cabin on wheels and red drawing on it showing passenger facing rear ward, is something that may pay off in terms of aerodynamics and less mass while also fixing the wideness problem even if it follows the same wheel setup and distance between wheel end and cabin

rest of thread has more for the wideness problem

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/60ad3cbd78ad350015955489

narrower width by:

NARROWER CABIN:

somone pointed out the armrest between passenger and driver is not nessesary, occupants can lean on armrests already existing at the door, armrest only at doors instead of armrest only between passenger allow for a more water drop shaped (for areodynamics) and less mass. the arm rest between passengers can not exist at all given people can rest on the one at the door, and teh lost storage space in the arm rest box can be made up for by more useful space in trunk via increasing trunk size (more space in trunk allows for storing a larger object, something storage in the armrest box cant help with.)

MINIVAN SLIDING DOORS:

minivan style slide doors instead of these doors which make the width of teh car wider when door is open pls (liek on toyota sienna) https://gearjunkie.com/toyota-tj-cruiser-minivan-cargo-suv-concept. the door doesnt have to have a arm moving through opening that you can see on the outside of older minivans:

this same honda oddesy has this hole replaced in recent models, whilemaintain sliding door:

this sliding mechanism can also be teh armrest when door is slid closed b/c it intrudes into the cabin a bit.

or : like in

or:

door pop outward by 1 or 2 passive sliding pistons behind driver, then there is space to slide teh door over the bodywork behind driver, so the joint connection is where the doors slides on. this can be also applied in 4 door cars or 4 trailer cabin by having the pop out joint at the front to slide teh door toward the front over the hood for the front row doors and sliding rearward over the trunk or 3rd row for rear/2nd row seats. instead of sliding forward or backward, the doors can rotate upward like in the white concept car above. this would be allow for less mass of moving door to allow for more rigid mass for better crash safety per mass than mercedes gullwing doors.

LUCIDS ENERGY MANAGEMENT

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/60313dd5ac35490017ae3507 apparently seems Lucids battery tech in aptera would allow for much smaller battery thus less necessary car size for teh same power density along with other improvements.

ALTERNATIVE SUSPENSION

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/6033f999081d9600158a28f3 this changing width on the drive can be integrated into the suspension itself by changing maximum suspension travel length and turning the wheels inward/ outward while changing car width if that helps.

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/5fffd3815d72e9008cb8fef2 suspension that could improve handling to allow for narrower car by having less aerodynamic disturbance between wheel thus exusing narrower space between wheel and body, or having wheels toward the front with the wheels between the nose rather than the thicker part of the body, and bring rear wheel closer to the front and replacing the physical aerodynamic tail with a virtual one (storage solutions to make up for storage in longtail, there isnt much usable space in much of the longtail anyway: https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/603ae8da2974f1001545e2ad ):

AREODYNAMIC MNAIPULATION VIA FAN

move the front wheel more foward allowing ability to make wheels more narrower while allowing teh same space between car and wheel for aerodynamics, b/c the front end of car is narrower. if balance becomes concern, the rear wheel can be brought closer to front wheel.

shorter length:

instead of long tail looking bodywork, most of which doesn't contain much storage space, a have a "virtual long tail" like gordon murray t.50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSaI6STYIQA with active aerodynamics manipulation, which can be more than just wings and ailerons, for ex. a suction or air pushing fan, fan is spun by spinning of wheels or spinning of a optimum gear in a gearbox. this is can be located at the wheel hub or string like gearing can transmit rotation to another location via electric motor or mechanical connection. this can allow toggability between weight loss from aerodynamics (also for less work thus more lifetime and lubrication lifetime for suspension for softening road bumpiness at high speed), aerodynamic frictionlessness, or downforce (if there aptera will ever need to down down more touraque than standing still weight from car on wheels will allow, especially for towing). this coudl also prevent body roll at high speeds if devices are located at the fuselage, which can allow for narrower cabin, especially when battery tech allows more total weight percentage to be at teh wheels hubs rather than in the fuselage especially rather than vertically higher location of weight)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPZI6XoHi10

airleon, fan, etc positions can be toggled via pulling strings around, the string is held around corners in teh cabin via wheels connected to the structure.

aerodynamic lift could have driver might as well drive at higher speed at some level rather than relatively lower speed b/c the same energy would be required to do either b/c car loses weight at higher speed. this should be shown on speedometer as markers between certain speeds, and built in a the first page of owners manual will explain its meaning. Owners manual is integrated into a aptera app that does many more things than just owners manual(https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/5ff79bf582b26c001731915e )

ALL WHEEL STEERING, OR REAR WHEEL STEERING, ACTIVE WHEEL CAMBER:

all wheel steering and actively changing wheel camber (maybe mechanically linked to steering) for better handling capability at turns which can translate to less need for braking when slowing down to take a turn, lessening the need to regen brake or mechanical brake, thus increasing range and battery/brakepad life over multiple iterations of braking. also improves handling, which can allow for a less distance between wheels which can mean a smaller car. it may also make aptera more appealing compared to new cheaper sports cars at similar price given the other merits of aptera. if all wheels steer car the car doenst rotate by its middle as much, the body moving less is more aerodynamics friendly and doesn't make the steering as over sensitive at high speeds vs low speeds as otherwise.

the rear wheel can be actuated based on steering wheel position, or passively steering a bit like the wheel on a shopping cart... the wheel can rotate a little but there isnt much/any actuation of the wheel by connection to steering wheel position.

https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/603514aaf014460015793424

@loswa Thanks for sharing your feedback. I think we are actually in ”violent agreement” 😉 on most points here. Please note I am responding to the initial beginning post of this thread and not the later points about international markets.

We do respectfully disagree a little bit on one item: You place more weight on the importance of marketing and buzz, while I place more weight on meeting a true customer need plus meeting the customer closer to where the customer wants to be. This is important for a company to sustain for the long term and avoid becoming a “museum product” (as you mentioned). They have convinced the niche (all of us here), though may have more challenges beyond the niche. Buzz by itself will not convert all the other people who just say “that’s really cool“ but do not take the next step to become actual buyers.

I look at Aptera’s hope for survival being one of two things: 1) They convince enough people to change what they think they want to instead redefine what they want with a new product (build it and they will come approach, which is possible though risky) and/or 2) generate so much buzz from this first Aptera model that they can ride the wave long enough to extend into what most buyers really want (4 seats, non-funky windows, etc.) by creating a still-better-than-most “compromise” alternative model(s) that will sustain them into the future.

@Scott I have to disagree with you on some points, Aptera has a very good marketing and is internationally known (see attachment). You will find Aptera in all social media. Many members of the forum, you will also find in the social networks, which also contribute to the promotion.

Much of the criticism ( except for the side windows) is due to the fact that the Aptera can not be approved in many countries. There are also various problems in the USA. It doesn't help if Aptera is trying to get approved and the laws are against it.

We are surrendering to a dream, that will remain a dream for many. If no approval is possible in the countries and Aptera does not conform, the niche product will become a museum product or a flop. The buyers must withdraw, it is missing the urgently needed capital, the price-performance ratio can no longer be maintained - the devil's spiral begins.

Where are all the other 3-wheelers, with the super design and with the great promises, which were presented over the decades as studies and show cars? Aptera could suffer the same destiny.

I agree that Aptera is going after a niche market and niche buyers. As such, it has created a terrific vehicle for a subset of buyers and enthusiasts like us.

It is important to understand the over-simplification of comparing Tesla's success to Aptera's hopeful future success, though ("That's why Tesla makes no advertising. People who want it, buy it.") Tesla is so successful because they offer all of the advantages of a "normal" car in an EV. At a high level and a practical level, Tesla has created well designed cars with only a single conceptual disadvantage/hurdle for most people: Owners are not able to "fuel up" in 5 minutes at readily available and understood gas stations. Higher price would be a second issue for some buyers, though Tesla has already been addressing that. Referring to the title of this forum thread: Teslas are not too wide, Teslas are not too long, Teslas do not have restrictive window openings, etc. As a result, Tesla is successful. They offer car buyers all of the advantages of a normal car with the advantages of an EV on top of that. Aptera does not offer all of the advantages of a "normal" car that has been defined over decades of customer feedback across the car companies of the world, though it does offer many more technical and performance advantages as an EV plus it looks really cool.

Aptera is essentially defining its own new product that does not necessarily have much larger scale, inherent market demand. They are hoping that their approach will be so well done that people will change their minds on their minimum requirements for buying and owning a car. That is possible, though risky. Aptera has convinced us forum members and "order owners" on the cool / tech / eco factors. However, Aptera's real test as a viable company comes when all the early adopter orders trickle away and Aptera needs to sell to non-early adopters. Like all of us, I will be an advocate. However, it may take a lot of convincing for most people beyond wanting to go for a joy ride and thinking it is a cool car for someone else to own. 😊

Money keeps the world and Aptera alive. You have to assume the actual number of buyers, not eventual buyers who actually buy this fancy and limited-use vehicle. The international buyers will quickly bail out if the vehicle cannot be registered in their respective countries. Investors do not invest in a company that is only locally positioned and offers a niche product and does not expand internationally. Suddenly there is no fresh capital available to expand production. The idea of offering an Aptera Sedan to the rest of the market does not work out, because Aptera then suddenly faces many competitors. If markets, buyers and local laws are not brought into line, Aptera will not survive.

aptera designed it to fit the US laws. Approx 330 mln people live in the USA. The market is large enough to keep them busy for years. If I were them I would not waste a minute trying to fit it to the European market unless they signed-up way more Europeans than Americans. Regardless you start with what is easiest to earn money to become financially stable to continue.

What happens, if we want to buy it and drive it - but the law prohibits it 🙄